1 00:00:26,689 --> 00:00:15,380 [Music] 2 00:00:31,979 --> 00:00:29,159 hello and welcome to the show Martin 3 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:31,989 will show host and we have great show 4 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:34,570 for you this evening first we have a 5 00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:36,970 special guest John Greenwald and he's 6 00:00:41,729 --> 00:00:38,800 coming on to talk about it his 7 00:00:45,180 --> 00:00:41,739 interesting take on the Wilson leaked 8 00:00:48,660 --> 00:00:45,190 documents we will give a quick recap of 9 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:48,670 what that means at first and because 10 00:00:53,639 --> 00:00:50,370 some of you may not be familiar with 11 00:00:55,229 --> 00:00:53,649 that subject at all and then we'll go 12 00:00:59,099 --> 00:00:55,239 into the great research that John has 13 00:01:02,400 --> 00:00:59,109 done and what he came up with our main 14 00:01:05,009 --> 00:01:02,410 guest is Michael Busby and Michael will 15 00:01:07,639 --> 00:01:05,019 be discussing and actually connecting 16 00:01:12,180 --> 00:01:07,649 the dots about the airship sightings 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:12,190 specifically the 1897 sighting and a lot 18 00:01:16,889 --> 00:01:14,770 more I want to thank the people behind 19 00:01:21,450 --> 00:01:16,899 the scenes bill skywatcher @kg are a 20 00:01:24,419 --> 00:01:21,460 radio and Peggy for managing our very 21 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:24,429 active Facebook page that's at Facebook 22 00:01:31,169 --> 00:01:29,050 / podcast UFO and you my listeners I 23 00:01:33,930 --> 00:01:31,179 hope all of you are safe and sound I 24 00:01:36,330 --> 00:01:33,940 really do appreciate you listening to 25 00:01:38,669 --> 00:01:36,340 the shows and I want to thank all my 26 00:01:41,790 --> 00:01:38,679 supporters as well I could not do this 27 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:41,800 without you and anyone can support the 28 00:01:50,130 --> 00:01:44,890 show that's over on patreon and you can 29 00:01:53,699 --> 00:01:50,140 get there through podcast UFO comm just 30 00:01:56,790 --> 00:01:53,709 a couple of things I have been basically 31 00:01:58,740 --> 00:01:56,800 I used to support myself by painting 32 00:02:00,930 --> 00:01:58,750 believe it or not I had my own art 33 00:02:04,740 --> 00:02:00,940 gallery but so I'm starting to do a 34 00:02:06,990 --> 00:02:04,750 couple of UFO paintings here's one I did 35 00:02:13,979 --> 00:02:07,000 last week a little snowy winter this is 36 00:02:16,050 --> 00:02:13,989 of course is on YouTube and this is like 37 00:02:18,690 --> 00:02:16,060 I try it for those of listening to the 38 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:18,700 podcast it's a triangular UFO over a 39 00:02:24,809 --> 00:02:22,090 snow-covered hillside in a house with 40 00:02:26,850 --> 00:02:24,819 lights on still haven't quite named of 41 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:26,860 that one yet 42 00:02:32,270 --> 00:02:30,130 but anyway I do have a special link that 43 00:02:36,420 --> 00:02:32,280 I made for my UFO 44 00:02:40,170 --> 00:02:36,430 paintings over it's actually in the show 45 00:02:43,140 --> 00:02:40,180 notes for YouTube and you can see it 46 00:02:45,300 --> 00:02:43,150 there and you can also go to my main art 47 00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:45,310 website which is Martin Willis art calm 48 00:02:50,430 --> 00:02:47,980 and I want to make a deal so if you want 49 00:02:52,949 --> 00:02:50,440 a UFO painting I will personalize it to 50 00:02:58,110 --> 00:02:52,959 you and send it shipping is always free 51 00:03:00,120 --> 00:02:58,120 in the United States and so it's really 52 00:03:03,089 --> 00:03:00,130 a private link is what you'll find to 53 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:03,099 the UFO paintings because I don't have 54 00:03:11,490 --> 00:03:08,970 them on my normal website and let's see 55 00:03:13,350 --> 00:03:11,500 you also want to go over to check that 56 00:03:16,190 --> 00:03:13,360 podcast UFO comm and check out this 57 00:03:21,870 --> 00:03:16,200 week's blog by Charles Lear it's called 58 00:03:24,780 --> 00:03:21,880 the other UFO crash in New Mexico or the 59 00:03:26,490 --> 00:03:24,790 yeah the other New Mexico UFO crash I 60 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:26,500 said a little backwards and that was in 61 00:03:33,180 --> 00:03:29,250 San Antonio New Mexico in August 16th 62 00:03:34,949 --> 00:03:33,190 1945 a couple years before Roswell it's 63 00:03:38,030 --> 00:03:34,959 a very interesting story and there's 64 00:03:41,310 --> 00:03:38,040 actually a link on the black vault 65 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:41,320 regarding the materials that supposedly 66 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:45,130 were found over at the site and speaking 67 00:03:51,870 --> 00:03:48,090 of the black vault we have John 68 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:51,880 Greenwald will be joining us right now 69 00:03:57,930 --> 00:03:56,290 and welcome to the show John hey Martin 70 00:04:00,270 --> 00:03:57,940 it's good to be here it's good to see ya 71 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:00,280 do I know I know it's been it's been a 72 00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:02,290 while it's always it's always great now 73 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:06,340 the reason you're on I really I let you 74 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:08,650 know this I listened to you and watched 75 00:04:13,259 --> 00:04:10,810 your video and that's also by the way a 76 00:04:16,430 --> 00:04:13,269 linked in the show notes and below in 77 00:04:19,380 --> 00:04:16,440 YouTube your great video that went 78 00:04:21,779 --> 00:04:19,390 comprehensively into these documents the 79 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:21,789 Wilson supposedly been hearing a lot 80 00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:23,530 about this for the last several months 81 00:04:30,450 --> 00:04:25,630 first of all I do want to I do want to 82 00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:30,460 set set the stage on how this all 83 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:31,630 happened if you wouldn't mind going 84 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:33,130 through that but first I want to say 85 00:04:38,370 --> 00:04:35,650 that I did indeed contact as I let you 86 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:38,380 know I contacted ralph Blumenthal and 87 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:41,250 Leslie Kane mm-hm I asked them both 88 00:04:44,219 --> 00:04:43,150 because there's a lot of rumors going 89 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:44,229 around that there's going to be a 90 00:04:48,690 --> 00:04:45,850 breaking story in The New York Times 91 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:48,700 yes even George Knapp set it on coast to 92 00:04:53,430 --> 00:04:51,010 coast the other night and they both said 93 00:04:57,450 --> 00:04:53,440 we have nothing we have nothing here 94 00:05:01,050 --> 00:04:57,460 interesting so I never get excited about 95 00:05:02,850 --> 00:05:01,060 rumors until it actually happens ya know 96 00:05:04,830 --> 00:05:02,860 even everybody says something's coming 97 00:05:07,260 --> 00:05:04,840 in five minutes I still don't get 98 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:07,270 excited until when it finally appears 99 00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:09,850 five years later but yeah that's that is 100 00:05:13,530 --> 00:05:11,350 interesting and good for you for for 101 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:13,540 reaching out getting the quotes yeah 102 00:05:18,270 --> 00:05:16,690 yeah well you know someone when I 103 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:18,280 mentioned that to someone else they said 104 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:20,050 oh they're just not gonna let you know 105 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:21,970 and it's gonna drop that's but you know 106 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:24,070 what is the possibility yeah in fairness 107 00:05:28,740 --> 00:05:26,890 that possible I mean the rumors that I'm 108 00:05:30,630 --> 00:05:28,750 hearing out in the Twitterverse and 109 00:05:32,190 --> 00:05:30,640 social media and the whispers and stuff 110 00:05:33,990 --> 00:05:32,200 is that you know they're gonna be 111 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:34,000 covering crash retrievals that that's 112 00:05:37,710 --> 00:05:36,010 potentially something that might tie 113 00:05:38,310 --> 00:05:37,720 into these Wilson documents and so on 114 00:05:41,190 --> 00:05:38,320 and so forth 115 00:05:44,220 --> 00:05:41,200 and to be honest with you I am very 116 00:05:45,570 --> 00:05:44,230 curious to see how some some outfit like 117 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:45,580 the New York Times will source that 118 00:05:50,310 --> 00:05:48,850 because these types of stories you're 119 00:05:52,530 --> 00:05:50,320 talking about anonymous source after 120 00:05:55,650 --> 00:05:52,540 anonymous source after third fourth hand 121 00:05:57,930 --> 00:05:55,660 I said that she said that I heard and 122 00:06:02,190 --> 00:05:57,940 you know back-alley conversations that's 123 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:02,200 not New York Times style yeah i'm but so 124 00:06:05,310 --> 00:06:04,090 i'm interested to see if something does 125 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:05,320 drop we'll see what happens 126 00:06:08,940 --> 00:06:07,690 yeah for those out there they have no 127 00:06:11,910 --> 00:06:08,950 idea what we're talking about when we 128 00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:11,920 talk about the Wilson leak this came out 129 00:06:18,210 --> 00:06:14,590 a while back can you kind of give a 130 00:06:20,430 --> 00:06:18,220 nutshell of what what that is sure well 131 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:20,440 in you Falah djegal style the way that 132 00:06:25,260 --> 00:06:22,690 the surfaced was a mysterious leak of 133 00:06:28,260 --> 00:06:25,270 records that popped up on a website 134 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:28,270 called imager and this was last year and 135 00:06:33,950 --> 00:06:31,930 these documents they were I think 15 136 00:06:37,850 --> 00:06:33,960 pages total or something like that and 137 00:06:40,860 --> 00:06:37,860 essentially it was a note breakdown from 138 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:40,870 allegedly dr. Eric Davis the same one 139 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:43,330 that has been intimately connected to 140 00:06:49,620 --> 00:06:46,930 nudes with Robert Bigelow also with the 141 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:49,630 AUSA program or what is often rumored as 142 00:06:55,770 --> 00:06:52,270 the Pentagon UFO study and essentially 143 00:06:57,980 --> 00:06:55,780 this was a note breakdown of his meeting 144 00:06:59,760 --> 00:06:57,990 with an Admiral Thomas Wilson and 145 00:07:01,379 --> 00:06:59,770 essentially it gets in 146 00:07:03,390 --> 00:07:01,389 - I mean the highlight nutshell version 147 00:07:07,379 --> 00:07:03,400 as it gets into the fact that this 148 00:07:09,990 --> 00:07:07,389 Admiral was made aware about UFO / 149 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:10,000 extraterrestrial programs going on he 150 00:07:13,409 --> 00:07:12,250 aimed to gain access because he was 151 00:07:16,740 --> 00:07:13,419 director of the Defense Intelligence 152 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:16,750 Agency j2 which is part of the the Joint 153 00:07:21,270 --> 00:07:19,110 Chiefs of Staff so a very high-ranking 154 00:07:23,399 --> 00:07:21,280 person you know this was this was not 155 00:07:25,740 --> 00:07:23,409 just a military guy looking around 156 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:25,750 trying to get some secrets this was a 157 00:07:31,710 --> 00:07:28,110 very high-ranking well-established 158 00:07:34,830 --> 00:07:31,720 careered military man so as the notes 159 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:34,840 display they talked about UFO crash 160 00:07:39,689 --> 00:07:37,690 retrieval programs that it was being 161 00:07:41,969 --> 00:07:39,699 hidden in large part in the private 162 00:07:44,909 --> 00:07:41,979 sector and that he was denied access 163 00:07:47,939 --> 00:07:44,919 that he tried to gain access but was 164 00:07:51,779 --> 00:07:47,949 denied and so someone at his level who 165 00:07:53,610 --> 00:07:51,789 should have access as per the notes that 166 00:07:56,909 --> 00:07:53,620 he believed he should have access was 167 00:07:58,619 --> 00:07:56,919 denied he was very angry about that now 168 00:08:00,420 --> 00:07:58,629 obviously there's many more details but 169 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:00,430 that's that's kind of the nutshell of 170 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:02,740 what these notes say and what they 171 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:06,610 outline and again in that you falah 172 00:08:11,279 --> 00:08:09,610 djegal style very little provenance now 173 00:08:13,350 --> 00:08:11,289 people will argue with me that with that 174 00:08:15,209 --> 00:08:13,360 but there's a lot of anonymous sources 175 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:15,219 that go around with those that are 176 00:08:20,899 --> 00:08:17,650 touting these as real that they have 177 00:08:23,339 --> 00:08:20,909 sources that confirm to them privately 178 00:08:25,230 --> 00:08:23,349 that they're real and this meeting took 179 00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:25,240 place and so on and so forth but they 180 00:08:28,620 --> 00:08:26,590 just won't come out with them publicly 181 00:08:30,719 --> 00:08:28,630 and I've asked numerous people who keep 182 00:08:34,860 --> 00:08:30,729 touting these new you know numerous 183 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:34,870 anonymous sources and no one will say 184 00:08:39,659 --> 00:08:38,050 anything so that's for me from an 185 00:08:42,300 --> 00:08:39,669 investigator standpoint is so 186 00:08:45,180 --> 00:08:42,310 frustrating because you want to have 187 00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:45,190 that either provenance to the documents 188 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:47,620 with names attached or people that can 189 00:08:52,290 --> 00:08:50,290 corroborate the story and right now we 190 00:08:57,170 --> 00:08:52,300 only have that third hand fourth hand 191 00:09:00,000 --> 00:08:57,180 information that's right and I just 192 00:09:02,310 --> 00:09:00,010 something from it from the very 193 00:09:04,199 --> 00:09:02,320 beginning when I started to look into 194 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:04,209 and I didn't do the deep nowhere near 195 00:09:07,829 --> 00:09:05,649 the deep research that you did I mean 196 00:09:10,230 --> 00:09:07,839 you talked with different people and 197 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:10,240 asked for you know different opinions 198 00:09:17,069 --> 00:09:13,810 about the different you know what P 199 00:09:20,309 --> 00:09:17,079 can say about classified programs and 200 00:09:24,749 --> 00:09:20,319 yeah that's a really good point why 201 00:09:26,939 --> 00:09:24,759 would Wilson jeopardize his you know 202 00:09:29,910 --> 00:09:26,949 everything basically right it's that's 203 00:09:31,739 --> 00:09:29,920 yeah and that is the biggest question 204 00:09:34,619 --> 00:09:31,749 just that common sense way of looking at 205 00:09:36,389 --> 00:09:34,629 it that doesn't make sense to me and so 206 00:09:37,319 --> 00:09:36,399 after these surfaced I would get a lot 207 00:09:38,340 --> 00:09:37,329 of questions what do you think of this 208 00:09:40,650 --> 00:09:38,350 what do you think of this cuz it was a 209 00:09:43,139 --> 00:09:40,660 hot topic and I just didn't want to 210 00:09:46,860 --> 00:09:43,149 touch it for a long time simply because 211 00:09:49,949 --> 00:09:46,870 it's so difficult to research leaked 212 00:09:52,499 --> 00:09:49,959 documents because you have no idea again 213 00:09:55,259 --> 00:09:52,509 where they came from who's involved with 214 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:55,269 it we'll Eric Davis actually talk now 215 00:10:00,900 --> 00:09:57,850 obviously he won't his is only on the 216 00:10:03,090 --> 00:10:00,910 record comment was no comment I am 217 00:10:05,369 --> 00:10:03,100 hearing that that again more rumors but 218 00:10:07,939 --> 00:10:05,379 the more information may come out I know 219 00:10:10,650 --> 00:10:07,949 that he talked about it coming from the 220 00:10:13,049 --> 00:10:10,660 astronaut Edgar Mitchell estate and the 221 00:10:14,790 --> 00:10:13,059 collection of documents but that in 222 00:10:16,530 --> 00:10:14,800 itself doesn't mean much that sounds 223 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:16,540 really neat but that doesn't mean 224 00:10:19,889 --> 00:10:18,490 anything it doesn't it doesn't mean that 225 00:10:21,900 --> 00:10:19,899 it's real it doesn't mean the meeting 226 00:10:24,749 --> 00:10:21,910 took place so again we need a little bit 227 00:10:27,150 --> 00:10:24,759 more than that and Eric Davis won't go 228 00:10:31,259 --> 00:10:27,160 on the record and say I had this meeting 229 00:10:33,780 --> 00:10:31,269 i sat with Admiral Wilson and he was 230 00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:33,790 denied access this actually went went 231 00:10:41,970 --> 00:10:36,160 went down if he goes on the record 232 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:41,980 I'm a revaluation these requests to kind 233 00:10:46,379 --> 00:10:43,930 of tackle it I had interviewed other 234 00:10:48,299 --> 00:10:46,389 people about it but I just didn't want 235 00:10:50,549 --> 00:10:48,309 to touch it I finally gave in and I 236 00:10:51,869 --> 00:10:50,559 started in and started reaching out to 237 00:10:54,299 --> 00:10:51,879 people who had researched different 238 00:10:57,299 --> 00:10:54,309 aspects of this tried to see what I 239 00:11:00,569 --> 00:10:57,309 could find out and something just 240 00:11:02,730 --> 00:11:00,579 clicked when I was researching it and it 241 00:11:04,829 --> 00:11:02,740 just stuck in my head and that was that 242 00:11:07,230 --> 00:11:04,839 this was a fictionalized either 243 00:11:10,619 --> 00:11:07,240 television or movie script as crazy as 244 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:10,629 that sounds that's how it read now right 245 00:11:14,939 --> 00:11:12,970 for those who don't know I worked in 246 00:11:16,860 --> 00:11:14,949 television for many years I've produced 247 00:11:18,809 --> 00:11:16,870 I've written I've directed for networks 248 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:18,819 like History Channel Discovery Channel 249 00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:21,850 National Geographic Channel this screams 250 00:11:26,580 --> 00:11:24,959 like a very amateurishly put together 251 00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:26,590 creative 252 00:11:32,190 --> 00:11:28,990 attempt at putting a scene together and 253 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:32,200 what I did in this video is I challenged 254 00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:35,650 my myself and I went back to 2002 when 255 00:11:39,630 --> 00:11:37,600 the these were allegedly written and 256 00:11:42,060 --> 00:11:39,640 looked at what was on television and 257 00:11:44,220 --> 00:11:42,070 wouldn't you know the x-files was coming 258 00:11:46,290 --> 00:11:44,230 to an end that same year just months 259 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:46,300 prior a hit television show called 260 00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:50,130 beyond belief that was was all about 261 00:11:55,470 --> 00:11:54,220 fictionalized accounts that may or may 262 00:11:56,820 --> 00:11:55,480 not have been true so again 263 00:11:59,040 --> 00:11:56,830 fictionalized a lot of them were just 264 00:12:01,440 --> 00:11:59,050 fake but they would throw in real 265 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:01,450 stories and it was up to you to find out 266 00:12:05,370 --> 00:12:03,130 what was fact and what was fiction hence 267 00:12:07,380 --> 00:12:05,380 the title beyond belief fact or fiction 268 00:12:11,540 --> 00:12:07,390 that was what was going on around this 269 00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:11,550 exact same time frame in the exact same 270 00:12:17,250 --> 00:12:14,710 part of the year that that that these 271 00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:17,260 notes were again allegedly written so 272 00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:20,320 that sounds like a crazy idea and and I 273 00:12:23,790 --> 00:12:22,060 laugh at myself for bringing it up and I 274 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:23,800 don't know if that's really what this is 275 00:12:29,850 --> 00:12:27,370 nor do I propose it as such but my aim 276 00:12:32,970 --> 00:12:29,860 for the video video was to show a very 277 00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:32,980 reasonable very plausible explanation 278 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:35,440 and as I kept digging in it made more 279 00:12:40,140 --> 00:12:37,570 and more sense to me yeah that this was 280 00:12:43,820 --> 00:12:40,150 just a creative script because you have 281 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:43,830 that dialog you even have Thomas Wilson 282 00:12:50,490 --> 00:12:48,130 interrupting Eric Davis in this you know 283 00:12:52,140 --> 00:12:50,500 in these notice yeah that's a little bit 284 00:12:53,970 --> 00:12:52,150 weird I mean if you're taking notes and 285 00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:53,980 let's say I'm taking notes and Martin 286 00:12:57,930 --> 00:12:55,750 you get you get angry that I keep 287 00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:57,940 talking over you which sometimes happens 288 00:13:02,280 --> 00:12:59,920 so I'll apologize but let's say you get 289 00:13:04,530 --> 00:13:02,290 angry and I'm taking notes I would just 290 00:13:07,020 --> 00:13:04,540 say he got angry at me you know I kept 291 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:07,030 interrupting him I wouldn't start like 292 00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:09,850 trying to make a scene between you and I 293 00:13:13,830 --> 00:13:12,430 as I'm taking notes and so that's why I 294 00:13:16,110 --> 00:13:13,840 just kind of clicked that it was more of 295 00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:16,120 this creative fictionalized account and 296 00:13:23,250 --> 00:13:19,600 then that led me to this scene and and I 297 00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:23,260 showed from from my personal collection 298 00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:25,750 of weird things I have an original movie 299 00:13:31,170 --> 00:13:28,000 script from from the movie day Groundhog 300 00:13:35,550 --> 00:13:31,180 Day and I pulled that out and it is set 301 00:13:38,010 --> 00:13:35,560 up the exact same way I've seen rips and 302 00:13:40,530 --> 00:13:38,020 you know I knew when I read those notes 303 00:13:42,780 --> 00:13:40,540 that's the first thing I said it just 304 00:13:45,690 --> 00:13:42,790 named funny they seemed funny but I 305 00:13:49,620 --> 00:13:45,700 never connected that to a script but 306 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:49,630 once I heard you say that I like makes 307 00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:51,610 sense yeah they're also makes sense why 308 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:53,920 you know Eric Davis would say no comment 309 00:13:59,910 --> 00:13:56,650 if he has you know signed an agreement 310 00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:59,920 not to talk about a movie but I mean not 311 00:14:03,870 --> 00:14:01,360 to say that he'd be in a movie but 312 00:14:07,290 --> 00:14:03,880 anyway you can see the question up on 313 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:07,300 the screen there and so you get an 314 00:14:10,020 --> 00:14:08,170 answer to that one 315 00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:10,030 how come Davis verified the authenticity 316 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:12,310 - Dolan according to Dolan well that's 317 00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:14,650 the problem is the only on the record 318 00:14:19,050 --> 00:14:16,510 statement that that I could find was 319 00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:19,060 that there was no comment so if this was 320 00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:20,950 given in secret I'd love to see the on 321 00:14:24,510 --> 00:14:22,600 the record comments I did look for that 322 00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:24,520 because I know that Richard Dolan is a 323 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:27,580 big advocate for these documents being 324 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:29,110 real he calls them the leak of the 325 00:14:33,810 --> 00:14:32,290 century and that's great but as as far 326 00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:33,820 as I could find 327 00:14:37,140 --> 00:14:36,580 there was no on the record comment that 328 00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:37,150 again 329 00:14:42,510 --> 00:14:39,420 he had kind of stayed away from 330 00:14:43,530 --> 00:14:42,520 commenting it and essentially saying no 331 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:43,540 comment 332 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:46,330 in addition dr. Hal put off also put out 333 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:48,610 a statement that he said that his 334 00:14:53,010 --> 00:14:50,770 colleague had interviewed Admiral Wilson 335 00:14:56,580 --> 00:14:53,020 but since it had dealt with potentially 336 00:15:00,030 --> 00:14:56,590 ongoing programs he also declined to 337 00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:00,040 comment so here this is what we need is 338 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:02,710 not these gray areas and these hidden 339 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:04,810 pieces of gems may be in this YouTube 340 00:15:09,780 --> 00:15:07,210 video or that these things have to be 341 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:09,790 put out into the open if Eric Davis will 342 00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:13,090 go on the record and say this happened I 343 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:15,040 wrote those notes and I stand by it 344 00:15:19,890 --> 00:15:16,930 then let's let's move forward with that 345 00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:19,900 but as far as I can tell there's nothing 346 00:15:25,310 --> 00:15:21,910 out there in the ether that we can cite 347 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:25,320 from him dying that and Wilson is 348 00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:28,330 totally denying it and why would he get 349 00:15:32,130 --> 00:15:30,670 in the back of a car in Las Vegas and by 350 00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:32,140 the way he says he hasn't been to Las 351 00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:35,980 Vegas since 1979 right but why would he 352 00:15:41,310 --> 00:15:38,320 get in the back of the car with and 353 00:15:43,380 --> 00:15:41,320 talked to Davis for 45 minutes someone 354 00:15:45,810 --> 00:15:43,390 he doesn't even know about something 355 00:15:47,850 --> 00:15:45,820 that's top secret you know that doesn't 356 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:47,860 it there's a lot it doesn't make sense 357 00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:50,410 no and and very quickly I'd like to make 358 00:15:55,740 --> 00:15:53,260 the point that if let's just say 359 00:15:58,170 --> 00:15:55,750 that Admiral Wilson looked into this and 360 00:16:00,570 --> 00:15:58,180 happened to stumble on the existence of 361 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:00,580 a special access program or what they 362 00:16:05,010 --> 00:16:02,170 call like unacknowledged special access 363 00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:05,020 programs or whatever and it's highly 364 00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:07,390 classified even though he was not 365 00:16:12,570 --> 00:16:10,120 quote-unquote read in and even though he 366 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:12,580 may have been denied access the mere 367 00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:16,210 existence of it in and of itself would 368 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:19,350 be classified information so someone at 369 00:16:25,710 --> 00:16:22,450 Wilson's level would not go and share 370 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:25,720 that information willingly especially 371 00:16:30,390 --> 00:16:28,690 since he himself was cleared for certain 372 00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:30,400 levels of secrecy he had a you know 373 00:16:35,610 --> 00:16:32,800 clearance himself so that doesn't make 374 00:16:38,250 --> 00:16:35,620 any sense whatsoever again especially 375 00:16:41,330 --> 00:16:38,260 sharing it with a you know member of a 376 00:16:45,690 --> 00:16:41,340 UFO group like knids or dr. Eric Davis 377 00:16:47,220 --> 00:16:45,700 in a car in Las Vegas again creatively 378 00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:47,230 from a not from a fictionalized 379 00:16:52,830 --> 00:16:49,870 standpoint absolutely that makes for a 380 00:16:55,410 --> 00:16:52,840 good scene you know but it doesn't make 381 00:16:58,020 --> 00:16:55,420 sense elsewhere and I think only only in 382 00:17:00,600 --> 00:16:58,030 ufology does does going back to your 383 00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,610 comment about Wilson denying seeing 384 00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:03,040 Davis only in ufology dozen I a denial 385 00:17:07,230 --> 00:17:05,199 equal an acknowledgment that it all 386 00:17:09,390 --> 00:17:07,240 happened you know I mean of course he's 387 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:09,400 gonna lie so it has to be true 388 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:12,070 and that's not true we need a little bit 389 00:17:16,620 --> 00:17:14,290 more evidence than what we've got yeah 390 00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:16,630 yeah well it's interesting have you 391 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:19,990 actually looked at what Jo UFO Jo wrote 392 00:17:27,930 --> 00:17:23,770 I did yeah and and pretty intense 393 00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:27,940 articles and you know nice nice writing 394 00:17:34,110 --> 00:17:31,360 but I'd you know again we don't you know 395 00:17:36,540 --> 00:17:34,120 he kind of thought he was actually gonna 396 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:36,550 be on the show tonight and and and I 397 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:40,450 just unfortunately I just didn't quite I 398 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:42,970 didn't see enough to be a hundred 399 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:45,250 percent convinced although he did a good 400 00:17:48,810 --> 00:17:47,530 job yeah the only things I don't want to 401 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:48,820 take away from his work I know he worked 402 00:17:55,290 --> 00:17:51,640 very hard on that yes he did but when we 403 00:17:57,690 --> 00:17:55,300 start relying on anonymous sources that 404 00:17:59,940 --> 00:17:57,700 particular author may be comfortable 405 00:18:02,250 --> 00:17:59,950 with the anonymous source that they have 406 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:02,260 but they have to understand that people 407 00:18:06,990 --> 00:18:04,450 like me who rely on a little bit more 408 00:18:09,570 --> 00:18:07,000 evidence and conclusive proof 409 00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:09,580 need a name you know I mean anonymous 410 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:12,400 sources are good supporting pieces of 411 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:14,410 the puzzle if you have a couple people 412 00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:15,970 that you can name and then maybe you add 413 00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:17,710 in another anonymous source that really 414 00:18:22,050 --> 00:18:19,990 solidifies it okay I can accept that I 415 00:18:24,420 --> 00:18:22,060 don't like it but I can accept it but if 416 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:24,430 you're solely long relying on anonymous 417 00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:27,490 sources and kind of these back back 418 00:18:32,940 --> 00:18:30,760 behind the scenes conversations to 419 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:32,950 solidify your point you have to 420 00:18:36,660 --> 00:18:34,450 understand where people like me are 421 00:18:38,790 --> 00:18:36,670 really skeptical you know it's really 422 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:38,800 easy this day and age to get fooled by 423 00:18:43,890 --> 00:18:41,650 anybody with a Twitter account or you 424 00:18:46,170 --> 00:18:43,900 know an anonymous encrypted email that 425 00:18:47,730 --> 00:18:46,180 you can be anybody sit down and fool 426 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:47,740 somebody into thinking you're somebody 427 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:49,510 you know all you got to use is some big 428 00:18:54,780 --> 00:18:51,690 words and know a few key words and 429 00:18:57,210 --> 00:18:54,790 automatically some may buy into the 430 00:18:59,340 --> 00:18:57,220 story so that's why with the field of 431 00:19:01,680 --> 00:18:59,350 UFOs I think we need to step back a 432 00:19:04,590 --> 00:19:01,690 little bit and realize that anonymous 433 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:04,600 sources can't be the end-all something 434 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:06,370 this important that that requires that 435 00:19:11,810 --> 00:19:08,890 evidence requires people to be named you 436 00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:11,820 know again that if Eric Davis 437 00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:15,070 gave his seal of authenticity that this 438 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:17,080 is real then that's great put out an 439 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:19,810 open letter to the UFO community or send 440 00:19:23,970 --> 00:19:21,730 it to the New York Times or write an 441 00:19:27,170 --> 00:19:23,980 op-ed for Washington Post and put it in 442 00:19:29,610 --> 00:19:27,180 writing and call out the US government 443 00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:29,620 but if that's not going to happen then 444 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:32,830 we've got a long way to go right well 445 00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,130 you know as everyone thinks 446 00:19:42,780 --> 00:19:39,280 who is he astronomer said the 447 00:19:44,550 --> 00:19:42,790 extraordinary extraordinary claims 448 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:44,560 require extraordinary evidence yeah 449 00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:46,450 believe Carl Sagan said that yeah wasn't 450 00:19:50,670 --> 00:19:48,430 even Carl Sagan saying but he took it 451 00:19:52,590 --> 00:19:50,680 from someone else but yes he was known 452 00:19:54,210 --> 00:19:52,600 for that saying well you need 453 00:19:55,710 --> 00:19:54,220 extraordinary evidence when you have an 454 00:19:57,690 --> 00:19:55,720 extraordinary claim like that that's 455 00:20:00,270 --> 00:19:57,700 awful even I'll even settle for some 456 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:00,280 evidence right I mean I just need some 457 00:20:03,390 --> 00:20:02,530 that that's that's what I'm what I'm 458 00:20:05,670 --> 00:20:03,400 going for 459 00:20:07,620 --> 00:20:05,680 and and I don't know how much time you 460 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:07,630 have but really quickly the the crazy 461 00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:09,970 thing for me is the fact that people 462 00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:13,510 will attack me not a lot but attack me 463 00:20:19,170 --> 00:20:16,960 for this theory that it could be this 464 00:20:19,370 --> 00:20:19,180 script you know if they already were and 465 00:20:30,410 --> 00:20:19,380 the 466 00:20:33,670 --> 00:20:30,420 exchanging it for a high-ranking admiral 467 00:20:36,170 --> 00:20:33,680 sitting and in a car in Las Vegas 468 00:20:38,270 --> 00:20:36,180 violating his security oath talking 469 00:20:39,980 --> 00:20:38,280 about a UFO crash retrieval program and 470 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:39,990 extraterrestrials so that part's not 471 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:43,050 crazy but I am for saying this might be 472 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:45,210 a fictionalized story you know and and 473 00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:47,370 and and that that's what I am always 474 00:20:51,050 --> 00:20:50,190 fascinated by yeah John it's always 475 00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:51,060 great to hear from you 476 00:20:55,580 --> 00:20:53,430 and can you two and throw out your when 477 00:20:57,890 --> 00:20:55,590 your show airs and all that I don't have 478 00:21:00,560 --> 00:20:57,900 set schedule I kind of throw stuff up at 479 00:21:03,380 --> 00:21:00,570 random but yet black vault comm will 480 00:21:05,090 --> 00:21:03,390 link you to my podcast YouTube channel I 481 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:05,100 have a lot of fun with that and I love 482 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:06,690 feedback even when people disagree with 483 00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:08,970 me so respectful dialogue is always 484 00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:11,190 welcome that's right I think you do an 485 00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:13,440 excellent job and thank you so much for 486 00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:15,480 making time cuz I know you have a very 487 00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:18,480 busy life not a problem anytime for you 488 00:21:21,260 --> 00:21:19,080 let me know 489 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:21,270 alright you take care thank you you too 490 00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:22,710 alright bye no bye 491 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:25,710 alright everyone so our guests coming 492 00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:28,370 right up in just a second here is 493 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:32,940 Michael Busby and he is and I hope I've 494 00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:35,850 been saying his name right and whoops we 495 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:37,320 have a little bit of feedback Michael 496 00:21:45,740 --> 00:21:39,330 you may have to turn something down you 497 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:45,750 had there okay Michael you have some 498 00:21:58,100 --> 00:21:55,290 type of feedback all right I don't know 499 00:21:59,630 --> 00:21:58,110 if you set your mic up right but I think 500 00:22:04,070 --> 00:21:59,640 we're gonna have to call you in on the 501 00:22:09,140 --> 00:22:04,080 phone and let's see I will do that this 502 00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:09,150 way all right Michael you there yes sir 503 00:22:15,020 --> 00:22:11,910 I'm here Michael can you hear me yeah 504 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:15,030 yeah Michael I'm not sure yeah I'm not 505 00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:16,890 sure what happened we had you up on 506 00:22:21,620 --> 00:22:20,070 stream yard and we had some serious 507 00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:21,630 feedback going through I don't know did 508 00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:24,990 you test your mic and all that yes I did 509 00:22:33,230 --> 00:22:29,310 I forgot to mention I live 16 miles down 510 00:22:38,230 --> 00:22:33,240 the country I'm on a huge satellite link 511 00:22:41,180 --> 00:22:38,240 and they're in pink pink hours they 512 00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:41,190 throttle everybody back and I think 513 00:22:47,030 --> 00:22:44,040 that's a large part of the issue I can 514 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:47,040 see you but okay this is what you can do 515 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:51,330 can you just turn the audio off on your 516 00:22:54,530 --> 00:22:53,250 you can do that right on the switch 517 00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,540 right on the screen I could still pull 518 00:22:59,810 --> 00:22:56,880 you in you're just beyond the phone but 519 00:23:01,700 --> 00:22:59,820 can you just for YouTube can you just go 520 00:23:03,140 --> 00:23:01,710 in and you can turn your audio off and 521 00:23:05,330 --> 00:23:03,150 you if you just put your mouse over the 522 00:23:06,650 --> 00:23:05,340 audio thing and click the button it'll 523 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:06,660 show you how to turn your art there you 524 00:23:11,450 --> 00:23:08,490 go alright I'm gonna bring you in right 525 00:23:13,550 --> 00:23:11,460 all right let's see if that works okay 526 00:23:17,630 --> 00:23:13,560 we can bring you in now and I will do 527 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:17,640 that and let's see all right there you 528 00:23:26,510 --> 00:23:23,970 are and so thank you for for being on 529 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:26,520 the show we see you now anyway and we 530 00:23:32,270 --> 00:23:29,210 see you talking on the phone so Michael 531 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:32,280 can I have quite a serious background 532 00:23:37,460 --> 00:23:34,050 can you go over that and we're going to 533 00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:37,470 find out what what got you interested in 534 00:23:44,150 --> 00:23:41,790 the topic to begin with well I I'm a 535 00:23:48,530 --> 00:23:44,160 country boy born and raised on a Texas 536 00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:48,540 ranch cattle ranch and I finished high 537 00:23:53,860 --> 00:23:50,070 school I went in the Marines 538 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:53,870 and when I was in the Marines I met this 539 00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:57,330 ethical support guy worked as a 540 00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:00,480 contractor for a company called Rockwell 541 00:24:07,580 --> 00:24:06,150 International and when my time was up in 542 00:24:11,660 --> 00:24:07,590 the Marines he got me a job with 543 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:11,670 Rockwell and I was a field service 544 00:24:18,050 --> 00:24:15,570 representative for a couple of years and 545 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:18,060 I started doing contract work for the 546 00:24:27,260 --> 00:24:22,610 DoD and CIA the Marines trained me in 547 00:24:30,530 --> 00:24:27,270 communications I was a data processing 548 00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:30,540 or datalink technician and this is in 549 00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:34,350 the 1960s when unless you worked in 550 00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:37,260 datalink technologies uh you didn't even 551 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:39,000 know what it was you never heard of it 552 00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:43,290 and so when I got out of the Marines I 553 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:45,000 went to work for Rockwell I started 554 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:46,490 going to college 555 00:24:53,169 --> 00:24:49,010 school and got a degree in electrical 556 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:53,179 engineering with a concentration and 557 00:25:01,120 --> 00:24:57,530 communications and I found you know 558 00:25:05,650 --> 00:25:01,130 electronics and technology in general to 559 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:05,660 be fascinating and I studied everything 560 00:25:14,169 --> 00:25:08,450 I could learn about it not just 561 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:14,179 communications but aerospace and some 562 00:25:22,090 --> 00:25:20,090 other disciplines and just excelled it 563 00:25:25,530 --> 00:25:22,100 the kind of work that I did which was 564 00:25:27,820 --> 00:25:25,540 solving problems for the DoD and CIA 565 00:25:32,260 --> 00:25:27,830 they would have a problem somewhere in 566 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:32,270 the world that no one could fix and they 567 00:25:38,410 --> 00:25:34,450 would saddle me up and ship me off to 568 00:25:42,010 --> 00:25:38,420 Timbuktu or wherever and I would fix 569 00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:42,020 their problem and come back to the 570 00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:43,670 States and enjoy a little time off 571 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:45,710 before I hit it off someplace else 572 00:25:54,850 --> 00:25:49,610 excuse me yeah and how long did you do 573 00:25:57,460 --> 00:25:54,860 that for 45 years oh god Wow 574 00:26:01,710 --> 00:25:57,470 you know you don't hear of those yeah 575 00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:01,720 yeah you don't hear of those long 576 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:05,030 careers especially these days so 577 00:26:09,820 --> 00:26:07,730 generally five years at one place five 578 00:26:14,890 --> 00:26:09,830 and another etc that's what it seems 579 00:26:19,630 --> 00:26:14,900 like for the most part I retired in 2012 580 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:19,640 I might point out that this star this 581 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:24,410 airship booked in 1991 it was published 582 00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:29,570 in 2001 well I was 30 years younger when 583 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:33,200 I started on started on that book and my 584 00:26:39,910 --> 00:26:34,610 picture on the book looks a lot younger 585 00:26:42,940 --> 00:26:39,920 than I am now yeah so how did you get 586 00:26:46,090 --> 00:26:42,950 interested in that that whole topic to 587 00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:46,100 begin with and so you see me started in 588 00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:51,620 2001 on that pardon you said you started 589 00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:56,240 in 2001 no I started the research and 590 00:27:03,640 --> 00:26:59,360 the writing in 1991 591 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:03,650 it was given to the publisher in 2001 so 592 00:27:09,370 --> 00:27:06,290 I think in yours researching at the 593 00:27:12,730 --> 00:27:09,380 Internet in 1991 the internet was not 594 00:27:14,890 --> 00:27:12,740 developed you had user groups and some 595 00:27:17,610 --> 00:27:14,900 things like that but as far as it being 596 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:17,620 a good research tool that really wasn't 597 00:27:25,330 --> 00:27:21,170 so what's the research I had to do was 598 00:27:28,299 --> 00:27:25,340 it libraries around the country and you 599 00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:28,309 know they just took some time to to have 600 00:27:35,020 --> 00:27:32,630 the resources to go to the library 601 00:27:39,130 --> 00:27:35,030 someplace at the time off and the funds 602 00:27:41,370 --> 00:27:39,140 to go and do research and so it just 603 00:27:46,060 --> 00:27:41,380 took 10 years to put the story together 604 00:27:50,260 --> 00:27:46,070 and publisher took in 2001 I think he 605 00:27:53,860 --> 00:27:50,270 came out in 2002 but the reason why I 606 00:27:57,970 --> 00:27:53,870 got interested in it a fellow Texan that 607 00:28:01,680 --> 00:27:57,980 I had met in the 1980s his name was Jim 608 00:28:04,150 --> 00:28:01,690 Hill he was a he worked for a publisher 609 00:28:07,539 --> 00:28:04,160 I'm not the publisher who published a 610 00:28:10,299 --> 00:28:07,549 book but a different publisher and we 611 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:10,309 were golfing one day and he he mentioned 612 00:28:17,650 --> 00:28:15,770 this 1897 an airship story and asked me 613 00:28:20,890 --> 00:28:17,660 if I knew anything about it and I told 614 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:20,900 him I didn't I'd never heard anything 615 00:28:27,630 --> 00:28:23,450 about it even though I was born and 616 00:28:31,690 --> 00:28:27,640 raised about 50 miles from Aurora Texas 617 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:31,700 where the one of the airships supposedly 618 00:28:39,970 --> 00:28:37,850 crashed in 1897 and so he told me said 619 00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:39,980 you know you're out to look into it it 620 00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:42,980 would probably make a good story a good 621 00:28:50,890 --> 00:28:46,190 book as at that time none had been 622 00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:50,900 written on it so that's what we've got 623 00:28:57,549 --> 00:28:53,600 me going started looking into it and and 624 00:29:01,419 --> 00:28:57,559 the more I researched the question the 625 00:29:04,299 --> 00:29:01,429 more interesting it became and it really 626 00:29:08,530 --> 00:29:04,309 has consumed a lot of my life since 1991 627 00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:08,540 because the story has never ended if so 628 00:29:12,370 --> 00:29:10,960 it's the neverending story 629 00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:12,380 if 630 00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:14,990 find a book and read it you'll 631 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:17,840 understand what I mean by that yeah 632 00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:22,010 let's uh let's go to well 633 00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:24,880 well first of all there was a people 634 00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:28,340 reporting a lot of things in you know in 635 00:29:34,930 --> 00:29:32,720 Europe and and in the United States and 636 00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:34,940 it's funny you know people reported 637 00:29:40,990 --> 00:29:38,150 lights shining down bright lights 638 00:29:43,090 --> 00:29:41,000 shining down and things like that and I 639 00:29:46,330 --> 00:29:43,100 really always loved the term airships 640 00:29:49,330 --> 00:29:46,340 you know as a description and you know 641 00:29:53,350 --> 00:29:49,340 perfectly fitting for you know for what 642 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:53,360 they were seeing but what what is in 643 00:29:59,050 --> 00:29:55,490 your research what is the earliest 644 00:30:02,020 --> 00:29:59,060 account of people reporting that you 645 00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:02,030 came across and is it specifically in 646 00:30:15,250 --> 00:30:08,240 the United States well the earliest was 647 00:30:17,410 --> 00:30:15,260 the 1840s there's a there's a fifty year 648 00:30:22,060 --> 00:30:17,420 story here that started in the 1840s 649 00:30:28,270 --> 00:30:22,070 that culminated in the series of airship 650 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:28,280 sightings in 1897 started with a guy by 651 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:31,130 the name of Solomon Andrews he was a 652 00:30:40,110 --> 00:30:34,730 medical doctor who lived in Perth Amboy 653 00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:40,120 New Jersey and in the 1840s he started 654 00:30:49,450 --> 00:30:45,200 inventing things and he was more or less 655 00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:49,460 famous in in the late 1840s for 656 00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:53,360 inventing they lock a padlock that he 657 00:31:00,130 --> 00:30:57,200 challenged anyone to open a chest that 658 00:31:02,830 --> 00:31:00,140 he had padlocked to a lamppost in New 659 00:31:05,890 --> 00:31:02,840 York City with a thousand dollars in it 660 00:31:07,570 --> 00:31:05,900 and he challenged all comers to get the 661 00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:07,580 lock and their reward would be the 662 00:31:12,370 --> 00:31:09,440 thousand dollars which was you know he's 663 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:12,380 some of money then well he lifted 664 00:31:18,910 --> 00:31:14,330 padlock to his lamp post for three 665 00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:18,920 months and no one no one was able to you 666 00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:22,100 know pick the lock and that got him a 667 00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:24,110 lucrative contract with the national 668 00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:26,080 government supply and locks 669 00:31:32,340 --> 00:31:28,809 or the military in the post office and 670 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:32,350 so that kind of gave him the funds he 671 00:31:41,460 --> 00:31:37,330 needed to open this shop in New York 672 00:31:45,060 --> 00:31:41,470 City called the inventors Institute and 673 00:31:50,419 --> 00:31:45,070 in the late 1840s there was a revolution 674 00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:50,429 in Germany and the revolution has failed 675 00:31:59,700 --> 00:31:53,529 which was the liberal component of the 676 00:32:00,919 --> 00:31:59,710 population and so a lot of German 677 00:32:05,310 --> 00:32:00,929 [Music] 678 00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,320 engineers and scientists left Germany 679 00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:07,360 and they migrated the united states well 680 00:32:12,210 --> 00:32:09,600 the main port of entry was New York City 681 00:32:16,590 --> 00:32:12,220 and Solomon Andrews was down on the 682 00:32:20,639 --> 00:32:16,600 docks offering work for any of the 683 00:32:23,820 --> 00:32:20,649 scientists inventors of any of the 684 00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:23,830 scientists or engineers who happen to be 685 00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:31,480 on board ship docking and they got into 686 00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:36,399 trying to develop a flying machine and I 687 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:37,809 can remember when I was in high school 688 00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:40,690 my high school history book had a ad in 689 00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:46,710 it that the chapter in the book about 690 00:32:54,750 --> 00:32:52,480 18-49 Gold Rush there was a picture of 691 00:32:56,509 --> 00:32:54,760 an ad in New York City newspaper ads 692 00:33:00,990 --> 00:32:56,519 from 1849 693 00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:01,000 this said you know fly with us to the 694 00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:04,750 gold fields I think it was a three-day 695 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:07,929 trip and I've always remembered that I 696 00:33:15,379 --> 00:33:12,730 always remembered that ad well in my 697 00:33:19,139 --> 00:33:15,389 research I discovered that it was 698 00:33:21,570 --> 00:33:19,149 Solomon Andrews by the way he was a 699 00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:21,580 medical doctor so it was dr. Solomon 700 00:33:27,529 --> 00:33:22,990 Enders 701 00:33:30,629 --> 00:33:27,539 his company but they had in the New York 702 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:30,639 Journal and it only ran for a couple of 703 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:38,110 days and they pulled the ad so we have 704 00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:39,770 fallen Andrews in New York City 705 00:33:45,580 --> 00:33:41,510 and by the way he changed the name of 706 00:33:48,310 --> 00:33:45,590 the inventors Institute to the something 707 00:33:57,340 --> 00:33:48,320 like the aeronautics club New York 708 00:34:01,000 --> 00:33:57,350 Aeronautics Club and not so much a part 709 00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:01,010 of the 1890s you have a story but one 710 00:34:07,649 --> 00:34:03,350 third and research in that particular 711 00:34:11,770 --> 00:34:07,659 story was that in the 1850s there was a 712 00:34:16,149 --> 00:34:11,780 aerial Club in the California Gold 713 00:34:20,620 --> 00:34:16,159 Fields called the sonora aerial Club and 714 00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:20,630 there was a artist and a technician my 715 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:25,700 name of Charles bellow Shaw who claimed 716 00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:31,450 to work for this aerial Club in 717 00:34:37,110 --> 00:34:34,159 California and you mentioned you were an 718 00:34:43,590 --> 00:34:37,120 artist and that kind of got my attention 719 00:34:49,870 --> 00:34:43,600 didn't saw when he retired around 1900 720 00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:49,880 he spent 23 years creating 5 over 5,000 721 00:35:04,600 --> 00:34:58,400 drawings of airships and well those 722 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:04,610 drawings were were bought by the there's 723 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:12,050 a Houston gallery that bought all of 724 00:35:19,690 --> 00:35:14,450 those drawings except some of them are 725 00:35:22,090 --> 00:35:19,700 bought by UFO enthusiasts but among 726 00:35:26,110 --> 00:35:22,100 joins were his writings and they were 727 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:26,120 coated and so people are trying to break 728 00:35:30,490 --> 00:35:28,250 the code to see you know understand what 729 00:35:35,110 --> 00:35:30,500 he was talking about he does mention 730 00:35:38,380 --> 00:35:35,120 some names which is about 43 names in 731 00:35:41,770 --> 00:35:38,390 this set of drawings and writings and he 732 00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:41,780 prepared all this 23 year period and I 733 00:35:48,340 --> 00:35:45,710 gather it's a weak link there was a weak 734 00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:48,350 link in the 1990s when I studied it now 735 00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:51,680 with the assets so you have with the 736 00:35:58,609 --> 00:35:53,339 Internet today 737 00:36:01,009 --> 00:35:58,619 and genealogy you can probably make make 738 00:36:03,499 --> 00:36:01,019 it a more solid connection but there 739 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:03,509 seem to be a connection between dr. 740 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:06,810 Solomon Andrews of New York City and his 741 00:36:13,609 --> 00:36:09,170 [Music] 742 00:36:17,450 --> 00:36:13,619 company and the Senora Ariel Club in the 743 00:36:21,799 --> 00:36:17,460 gold fields in the 1850s now there were 744 00:36:25,329 --> 00:36:21,809 some reported sightings of airships seen 745 00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:25,339 in the 1850s out west in California and 746 00:36:36,019 --> 00:36:30,960 and in the general western area and I 747 00:36:38,569 --> 00:36:36,029 assumed that they were airships that are 748 00:36:40,579 --> 00:36:38,579 similar to the drawings at Bell Shaw 749 00:36:43,779 --> 00:36:40,589 made and you find some of his drawings 750 00:36:46,009 --> 00:36:43,789 on the internet if you search his name 751 00:36:48,099 --> 00:36:46,019 but at one time they were selling for 752 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:48,109 fifteen twenty thousand dollars a piece 753 00:36:54,410 --> 00:36:51,210 so people bought them and put copies on 754 00:36:58,370 --> 00:36:54,420 the Internet but apparently they were 755 00:37:00,499 --> 00:36:58,380 very unreliable because he mentions a 756 00:37:03,229 --> 00:37:00,509 lot of crashes and a lot of people 757 00:37:08,359 --> 00:37:03,239 killed and I mentioned in all this 758 00:37:15,069 --> 00:37:08,369 because it leads up to the civil war in 759 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:15,079 the 1860s when dr. Solomon Enders 760 00:37:27,499 --> 00:37:20,690 offered to the War Department to build a 761 00:37:33,170 --> 00:37:27,509 airship that the North could use to 762 00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:33,180 surveil Confederate lines I was 763 00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:35,430 interested and they contacted with him 764 00:37:41,989 --> 00:37:38,700 to build one and to fly they'll make a 765 00:37:43,809 --> 00:37:41,999 demonstration flight which he did in the 766 00:37:47,150 --> 00:37:43,819 fall of 1863 767 00:37:49,509 --> 00:37:47,160 and he did it in New York City and the 768 00:37:56,599 --> 00:37:49,519 demonstration flight was attended by 769 00:37:59,259 --> 00:37:56,609 some 15 or 20 newspaper reporters by his 770 00:38:03,769 --> 00:37:59,269 and their calculation he flew an airship 771 00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:03,779 over 200 miles an hour and altitude of 772 00:38:09,140 --> 00:38:06,270 half a mile 773 00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:09,150 that's pretty high pretty fast for 1863 774 00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:14,310 yeah but it's documented in numerous 775 00:38:22,190 --> 00:38:19,110 newspapers also he had to submit his 776 00:38:25,580 --> 00:38:22,200 plans to the War Department so they are 777 00:38:28,340 --> 00:38:25,590 in the National Archives you can you can 778 00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:28,350 go fetch those plans and build your own 779 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:31,140 200 mile-an-hour airship if you want to 780 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:35,810 yes you got the money can we just no 781 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:38,250 complete can we just hold it right there 782 00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:41,610 for a second first of all I know that 783 00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:43,320 during the Civil War I can't remember 784 00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:46,110 with the type of gas they used for 785 00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:48,150 they're lighter than air and of balloons 786 00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:50,310 that they did use during the war they 787 00:38:54,830 --> 00:38:52,740 usually tethered them and use them for 788 00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:54,840 basically spying I know they did that 789 00:39:01,220 --> 00:38:58,890 but they also had a very flammable gas I 790 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:01,230 can't remember what that was do you know 791 00:39:06,740 --> 00:39:04,010 it was a use that was really dangerous 792 00:39:11,330 --> 00:39:06,750 when were using helium in the in the 793 00:39:14,330 --> 00:39:11,340 1800s the ones they tethered for for 794 00:39:16,430 --> 00:39:14,340 signaling and for the use them for 795 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:16,440 signaling their communication and they 796 00:39:22,670 --> 00:39:20,490 also use them for overlooking the 797 00:39:24,010 --> 00:39:22,680 enemy's lines those were hot-air 798 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:24,020 balloons 799 00:39:37,970 --> 00:39:35,720 something that create hot air but dr. 800 00:39:41,450 --> 00:39:37,980 Solomon Andrews airship was a 801 00:39:45,580 --> 00:39:41,460 helium-filled it consisted three 802 00:39:50,780 --> 00:39:45,590 balloons three three cigarettes 803 00:39:56,690 --> 00:39:50,790 dirigible and you can find the 804 00:39:58,340 --> 00:39:56,700 dimensions of his machine and now like I 805 00:40:02,180 --> 00:39:58,350 said you can replicate you can build in 806 00:40:08,180 --> 00:40:02,190 fact in 1963 I found that a group of 807 00:40:10,430 --> 00:40:08,190 Navy pilots were said about to do that 808 00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:10,440 but I never was able to discover how 809 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:15,510 successful they were now I mention this 810 00:40:19,849 --> 00:40:18,770 because this is very important to the 811 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:19,859 1890s 812 00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:23,249 an airship story and the reason why is 813 00:40:29,509 --> 00:40:26,609 because Knox Solomon Enders was a member 814 00:40:34,309 --> 00:40:29,519 of the sanitary commission for the 815 00:40:39,049 --> 00:40:34,319 Northern armies and in the fall of 1864 816 00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:39,059 he was assigned to the Pittsburgh feed 817 00:40:47,269 --> 00:40:44,400 lines well almost all of the names that 818 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:47,279 I ferreted out of the 1897 airship 819 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:50,970 sightings I could trace their presence 820 00:41:01,849 --> 00:40:55,410 back to the siege lines at Petersburg in 821 00:41:04,099 --> 00:41:01,859 the fall of 1864 so when when Solomon 822 00:41:09,319 --> 00:41:04,109 Andrews flew his airship is all and all 823 00:41:11,359 --> 00:41:09,329 the northern papers and so everyone 824 00:41:14,029 --> 00:41:11,369 would have read about it you know all 825 00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:14,039 the soldiers in the trenches would have 826 00:41:18,529 --> 00:41:15,599 read about it say what they were 827 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:18,539 familiar with the story then and then 828 00:41:25,309 --> 00:41:21,210 dr. Andrew who shows up in the trenches 829 00:41:29,630 --> 00:41:25,319 with them and I'm sure he must have 830 00:41:31,549 --> 00:41:29,640 given numerous roundtable discussions 831 00:41:36,460 --> 00:41:31,559 with with people who are interested in 832 00:41:40,249 --> 00:41:36,470 flying because we find after the war 833 00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:40,259 this core group of people go to 834 00:41:48,589 --> 00:41:44,220 California to Northern California and 835 00:41:50,420 --> 00:41:48,599 they start building airships and in my 836 00:41:55,729 --> 00:41:50,430 book I have I have all these people 837 00:41:57,970 --> 00:41:55,739 identified and I have them you know 838 00:42:03,099 --> 00:41:57,980 their relationship to follow the Manders 839 00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:03,109 what military unit they were with and 840 00:42:09,380 --> 00:42:06,569 you can document you can go to the 841 00:42:14,749 --> 00:42:09,390 archive national archives or so like 842 00:42:19,489 --> 00:42:14,759 ancestry.com and verify that they were 843 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:19,499 members of the military units that I you 844 00:42:25,729 --> 00:42:21,690 know I've identified them with and you 845 00:42:29,299 --> 00:42:25,739 can tell that the units were present and 846 00:42:32,170 --> 00:42:29,309 at Petersburg in the fall of 1864 so I 847 00:42:36,010 --> 00:42:32,180 think dr. Shawn Andrews and his 848 00:42:42,130 --> 00:42:36,020 his inventors Institute from the 1840s 849 00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:42,140 in the common denominator for sentient 850 00:42:49,390 --> 00:42:44,960 airship sightings but also for the 851 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:49,400 Senora Senora aerial Club of the 1850s 852 00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:52,609 and the goldfields now I mention the 853 00:42:59,440 --> 00:42:57,920 Goldfield sometimes because building you 854 00:43:02,289 --> 00:42:59,450 know designing and building these 855 00:43:04,809 --> 00:43:02,299 airships were not cheap it was an 856 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:04,819 expensive proposition I have one 857 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:09,490 estimate from an inventor in California 858 00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:12,410 his statement to a San Francisco 859 00:43:21,220 --> 00:43:16,880 newspaper in 1896 that cost $10,000 to 860 00:43:26,010 --> 00:43:21,230 build an airship well that's a that's a 861 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:29,859 so gold and the gold fields would have 862 00:43:37,870 --> 00:43:34,490 provided the capital needed for the men 863 00:43:43,500 --> 00:43:37,880 to build these airships and the common 864 00:43:47,769 --> 00:43:43,510 denominator there is George Hearst and 865 00:43:50,380 --> 00:43:47,779 Randolph Hearst 89 yeah well Jordan 866 00:43:53,620 --> 00:43:50,390 George William Randolph Hearst father 867 00:43:57,370 --> 00:43:53,630 George Hearst his men in the world when 868 00:44:01,390 --> 00:43:57,380 he died in 1892 and William Randolph was 869 00:44:03,849 --> 00:44:01,400 the only child so he inherited well he 870 00:44:06,299 --> 00:44:03,859 is a mother was still alive so she got 871 00:44:08,890 --> 00:44:06,309 you know she inherited most of his 872 00:44:10,930 --> 00:44:08,900 George's fortune at the time but then 873 00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:10,940 she died when she died he inherited the 874 00:44:18,010 --> 00:44:13,250 rest of it the remainder they did get 875 00:44:22,049 --> 00:44:18,020 William and I first took over George's 876 00:44:26,380 --> 00:44:22,059 San Francisco Examiner newspaper in 1886 877 00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:26,390 1887 and there's been eight million 878 00:44:36,010 --> 00:44:30,079 dollars in getting that to be a premiere 879 00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:36,020 you know countrywide newspaper so he 880 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:38,240 obviously has some amount of money if 881 00:44:42,730 --> 00:44:39,770 he'd spent eight million dollars to 882 00:44:45,410 --> 00:44:42,740 combine new machinery and hired the best 883 00:44:51,250 --> 00:44:45,420 writers and all that sort of stuff 884 00:44:56,890 --> 00:44:51,260 so we ran off first at the time was 885 00:45:02,260 --> 00:44:56,900 extremely liberal we would identify him 886 00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:02,270 probably as a communist today well in 887 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:10,020 1895 he was not one to work for his 888 00:45:16,100 --> 00:45:12,450 newspaper that he thought brought 889 00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:16,110 brought a talent that he needed he 890 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:17,730 didn't care about their personal habits 891 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:20,610 so he hired drug addicts 892 00:45:28,820 --> 00:45:24,210 he hired murderers you know he hired all 893 00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:28,830 kinds of people so in 1895 for some 894 00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:31,350 reason he decided that they all needed 895 00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:36,300 to get away a place to go and just be 896 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:39,420 themselves for three weeks and relax and 897 00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:42,450 take it easy so he bought two thousand 898 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:44,250 acres in northern California on the 899 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:48,330 White River and getting away from it all 900 00:45:54,590 --> 00:45:51,090 letting your hair down and partying and 901 00:46:00,800 --> 00:45:54,600 you know they didn't smoke marijuana 902 00:46:03,410 --> 00:46:00,810 then so much as a as it was heroin you 903 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:03,420 know Chinese heroin trade was real real 904 00:46:10,910 --> 00:46:06,690 big in San Francisco at time they bought 905 00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:10,920 this 2,000 acres and every weeks in the 906 00:46:18,620 --> 00:46:13,500 fall or in August every three weeks in 907 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:18,630 August he would send his newspaper staff 908 00:46:24,650 --> 00:46:20,930 he and his newspaper staff would go 909 00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:24,660 there's two thousand acre ranch and that 910 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:26,520 kind of lifestyle 911 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:33,570 called Bohemians so he went off first he 912 00:46:40,010 --> 00:46:36,770 named this Bohemian Grove 913 00:46:41,810 --> 00:46:40,020 in 1991 when I was researching this 914 00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:41,820 nobody had heard of Bohemian Grove 915 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:44,550 outside of Northern California but now 916 00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:46,890 it's over the internet you can read up 917 00:46:52,130 --> 00:46:49,200 on and study and really understand what 918 00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:52,140 it is you know it's a place where all 919 00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,460 the world's leaders and politics and 920 00:47:04,689 --> 00:46:59,119 business get together every August and 921 00:47:07,969 --> 00:47:04,699 and supposedly set the world's agenda 922 00:47:12,049 --> 00:47:07,979 for the coming year so we ran our first 923 00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:12,059 card that in 1895 and for the first five 924 00:47:17,859 --> 00:47:15,180 years it was just his reporters and the 925 00:47:21,439 --> 00:47:17,869 people who worked for him the artists 926 00:47:24,189 --> 00:47:21,449 and reporters the work for him were 927 00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:24,199 invited to go there in August but by 928 00:47:30,019 --> 00:47:28,079 1905 reporters and artists were no 929 00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:30,029 longer welcome and by then it was all 930 00:47:42,529 --> 00:47:32,640 just business and business people and 931 00:47:44,209 --> 00:47:42,539 politicians okay so I think and and 932 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:44,219 you'll understand why when you read the 933 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:45,690 book or when I tell you here in few 934 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:48,690 minutes but I believe we amend our first 935 00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,410 was one of the main invent investors in 936 00:48:01,880 --> 00:47:57,599 these people who were designing and 937 00:48:05,689 --> 00:48:01,890 building airships in the 1880s and 1890s 938 00:48:09,049 --> 00:48:05,699 I think George Hearst was you know 939 00:48:12,380 --> 00:48:09,059 started in the 1850s because by then by 940 00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:12,390 the 1850s he was already wealthy having 941 00:48:21,099 --> 00:48:15,440 struck several gold mines in California 942 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:21,109 also in silver mines also in Montana and 943 00:48:29,259 --> 00:48:24,930 he was already a multi-millionaire but 944 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:29,269 another name that was involved in the 945 00:48:44,479 --> 00:48:40,410 1897 airship story was a family name of 946 00:48:49,999 --> 00:48:44,489 Rockwell Samuel Rockwell on the 947 00:48:55,039 --> 00:48:50,009 Sacramento Bee and Samuel Rockwell's 948 00:49:00,229 --> 00:48:55,049 daughter married George Collins George 949 00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:00,239 Collins was a cousin who we met our 950 00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:05,640 first wium Randolph Hearst mother's 951 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:11,609 maiden name with Collins so they were 952 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:12,810 first cousins 953 00:49:22,670 --> 00:49:19,050 and during the 1890s George Collins had 954 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:22,680 had gotten his law degree and he was an 955 00:49:35,060 --> 00:49:24,690 attorney working for the Hearst 956 00:49:40,310 --> 00:49:35,070 organization when the well when 1896 957 00:49:43,550 --> 00:49:40,320 came along there was an airship ever 958 00:49:53,180 --> 00:49:43,560 seen flying over Sacramento and over 959 00:49:56,030 --> 00:49:53,190 November 17 1896 and I'm sorry you guys 960 00:49:59,600 --> 00:49:56,040 won't take a break I know that that will 961 00:50:02,180 --> 00:49:59,610 be coming up in and let's see about five 962 00:50:04,460 --> 00:50:02,190 minutes we're going into a break but 963 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:04,470 I'll let you continue but just keep in 964 00:50:09,170 --> 00:50:06,330 mind in five minutes and I did have a 965 00:50:14,510 --> 00:50:09,180 question about I will wanted to ask you 966 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:14,520 fairly soon but go ahead okay well Sir 967 00:50:21,740 --> 00:50:18,450 George Collins the Rockwell family is 968 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:21,750 involved in these airship sightings and 969 00:50:28,100 --> 00:50:24,450 and by 1896 970 00:50:35,390 --> 00:50:28,110 that's another wealthy family in America 971 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:35,400 oh I believe a group of wealthy 972 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:39,450 Americans working with Solomon Andrews 973 00:50:46,690 --> 00:50:44,010 in the 1850s had developed some flying 974 00:50:49,970 --> 00:50:46,700 machines that were not really reliable 975 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:49,980 they did fly them back and forth between 976 00:50:56,900 --> 00:50:52,530 New York and California because there 977 00:51:00,080 --> 00:50:56,910 are reported sightings turn 18 978 00:51:03,140 --> 00:51:00,090 scattered course you know country wasn't 979 00:51:07,070 --> 00:51:03,150 real populated heavily populated between 980 00:51:10,090 --> 00:51:07,080 New York and California in 1850s but 981 00:51:13,490 --> 00:51:10,100 there are scattered reporting's 982 00:51:17,150 --> 00:51:13,500 sightings of things flying in the sky at 983 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:17,160 night between New York California but 984 00:51:22,550 --> 00:51:19,850 according to del Shaw Charles del Shaw 985 00:51:25,330 --> 00:51:22,560 these machines were not reliable and 986 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:25,340 they crashed quite often and killed 987 00:51:33,260 --> 00:51:31,170 killed everybody on board yeah and a lot 988 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:33,270 of them that's what I know I've looked 989 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:35,850 into it it is hydrogen I was thinking of 990 00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:37,170 they used hydrogen 991 00:51:41,810 --> 00:51:39,330 I know during the Civil War and there 992 00:51:44,900 --> 00:51:41,820 were some terrible accidents and you 993 00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,910 know very very flammable yet you know 994 00:51:49,700 --> 00:51:47,280 that's right because there was actually 995 00:51:54,140 --> 00:51:49,710 a hydrogen Factory in Fort Worth Texas 996 00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:54,150 I remember now an article where where a 997 00:52:01,670 --> 00:51:56,370 national air ship put down on the ground 998 00:52:06,740 --> 00:52:01,680 and Fort Worth and the occupants were 999 00:52:09,530 --> 00:52:06,750 looking for a source of hydrogen I said 1000 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:09,540 helium did not yeah the hydrogen yeah 1001 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:13,370 and hydrogen they they blessed the first 1002 00:52:21,950 --> 00:52:17,610 actually first hydrogen engine and it 1003 00:52:25,580 --> 00:52:21,960 was 1850 for internal combustion engine 1004 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:25,590 that ran on hydrogen yeah it was very 1005 00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:28,530 early yeah 1850s yeah that's right yeah 1006 00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:32,730 right and I think maybe that's the 1007 00:52:40,940 --> 00:52:37,610 motive power because these airships 1008 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:40,950 actually went to the Patent Office and 1009 00:52:46,340 --> 00:52:43,650 look through patent records back in the 1010 00:52:51,020 --> 00:52:46,350 time period and there are our airships 1011 00:52:58,130 --> 00:52:51,030 there were the early 1850s early 1850s 1012 00:53:02,270 --> 00:52:58,140 up through 1897 and the pictures that 1013 00:53:04,730 --> 00:53:02,280 they also drew and the description of 1014 00:53:07,820 --> 00:53:04,740 airships that are written in these 1015 00:53:10,430 --> 00:53:07,830 newspaper articles do correspond quite 1016 00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:10,440 accurately with these these patent 1017 00:53:21,860 --> 00:53:17,040 drawings and these airships were driven 1018 00:53:26,090 --> 00:53:21,870 with propellers and operty there was 1019 00:53:29,900 --> 00:53:26,100 hydrogen engines that that were used to 1020 00:53:33,260 --> 00:53:29,910 propel them I know they even used steam 1021 00:53:37,460 --> 00:53:33,270 on some very early dirigibles way back 1022 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:37,470 yeah but very successful because Staton 1023 00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:39,210 engines were too heavy yeah 1024 00:53:46,550 --> 00:53:44,910 oh yeah they found that was I was kind 1025 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:46,560 of an issue there which was the weight 1026 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:48,770 of the same engines and the water and 1027 00:53:54,980 --> 00:53:51,930 and then the fuel you had to carry to 1028 00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:54,990 burn yeah that's a lot that's a lot I 1029 00:54:01,099 --> 00:53:57,450 think we're going to run and go into the 1030 00:54:03,710 --> 00:54:01,109 break now and what I am going to do is 1031 00:54:06,109 --> 00:54:03,720 we're going to stay on you and I are 1032 00:54:08,359 --> 00:54:06,119 going to stay on during the break and 1033 00:54:11,420 --> 00:54:08,369 we're gonna try to fix your audio so you 1034 00:54:13,130 --> 00:54:11,430 can go back to audio but so and we'll 1035 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:13,140 actually unfortunately we'll be live on 1036 00:54:18,170 --> 00:54:16,290 YouTube when we do that so just remember 1037 00:54:21,050 --> 00:54:18,180 we're still alive but we're gonna go 1038 00:54:23,980 --> 00:54:21,060 into the break so hang in everyone we'll 1039 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:23,990 be right back right after these 1040 00:54:34,460 --> 00:54:31,770 commercials clear how much time do we 1041 00:54:36,829 --> 00:54:34,470 have bill I gave you five minutes okay 1042 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:36,839 five well five minutes so that should be 1043 00:54:42,620 --> 00:54:38,570 plenty of time all right 1044 00:54:45,460 --> 00:54:42,630 and so I do want to everyone - excuse us 1045 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:45,470 on YouTube we're gonna try to fix 1046 00:54:53,690 --> 00:54:49,410 Michael's audio so Michael I want you to 1047 00:54:55,609 --> 00:54:53,700 hang on the phone if you would but I'm 1048 00:54:57,950 --> 00:54:55,619 gonna remove you bill for a second for a 1049 00:55:02,000 --> 00:54:57,960 little while here I want you to hang on 1050 00:55:04,460 --> 00:55:02,010 the phone actually I don't think you can 1051 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:04,470 hear me let me just do this again 1052 00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:07,170 Michael hang on the phone but what I 1053 00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:09,089 want you to do is I want you to sign out 1054 00:55:16,670 --> 00:55:13,680 on stream yard and sign back in and try 1055 00:55:18,020 --> 00:55:16,680 to connect your your something's wrong 1056 00:55:21,470 --> 00:55:18,030 with your audio there you're getting 1057 00:55:25,849 --> 00:55:21,480 some feedback I see you're trying to do 1058 00:55:30,589 --> 00:55:25,859 it now when you turn your you need to go 1059 00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:30,599 back to the the backstage it's called go 1060 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:32,609 back to the backstage take yourself out 1061 00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:39,680 actually you can't you you can't hear me 1062 00:55:44,990 --> 00:55:43,260 so take yourself out of this studio and 1063 00:55:49,550 --> 00:55:45,000 go back in and try to reset up your 1064 00:55:51,620 --> 00:55:49,560 microphone if you would let's stay on 1065 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:51,630 that phone just in case 1066 00:55:57,230 --> 00:55:54,690 yeah he's gone so hopefully he will be 1067 00:55:58,760 --> 00:55:57,240 back over there in YouTube I guess is I 1068 00:56:03,050 --> 00:55:58,770 don't know if this is any better than 1069 00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:03,060 listening to silence or not but anyway 1070 00:56:06,740 --> 00:56:05,280 we're gonna try to get Michael's audio 1071 00:56:10,010 --> 00:56:06,750 up so he doesn't have to hang on the 1072 00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:10,020 phone and hopeless should be seeing him 1073 00:56:16,490 --> 00:56:14,400 come back in and so we got a five minute 1074 00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,500 break here we still have three minutes a 1075 00:56:22,820 --> 00:56:18,240 little over three minutes left 1076 00:56:24,530 --> 00:56:22,830 correct yeah bill so might as well chat 1077 00:56:27,140 --> 00:56:24,540 to you since if you don't mind talking a 1078 00:56:29,390 --> 00:56:27,150 little bit can you yeah fine I found 1079 00:56:32,210 --> 00:56:29,400 what John Green well as always the black 1080 00:56:34,310 --> 00:56:32,220 ball very interesting he's he's always 1081 00:56:37,370 --> 00:56:34,320 on top of the foyers and getting his 1082 00:56:39,110 --> 00:56:37,380 hands on documents and regardless of 1083 00:56:40,940 --> 00:56:39,120 what people think at least the guys up 1084 00:56:42,860 --> 00:56:40,950 front and he puts out the the 1085 00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:42,870 information out there for everyone to 1086 00:56:46,370 --> 00:56:44,070 pretty much reach their own conclusions 1087 00:56:48,770 --> 00:56:46,380 and that's what you want you want access 1088 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:48,780 to that kind of information and I think 1089 00:56:54,470 --> 00:56:50,970 John does an extremely incredible job 1090 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:54,480 doing that I do too and you know that's 1091 00:56:58,160 --> 00:56:55,650 why I wanted to have him on I watched 1092 00:57:01,070 --> 00:56:58,170 this video and I highly recommend anyone 1093 00:57:04,820 --> 00:57:01,080 can go into the show notes they can go 1094 00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:04,830 into also down below in YouTube in the 1095 00:57:10,220 --> 00:57:07,200 description you will see a link to his 1096 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:10,230 video where he goes into very very deep 1097 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:12,930 details about his research and this he 1098 00:57:17,390 --> 00:57:15,330 took it serious I mean he really did 1099 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:17,400 from a young age by the way and that's 1100 00:57:20,810 --> 00:57:18,810 great to see that everywhere there are 1101 00:57:22,430 --> 00:57:20,820 people that are in the younger 1102 00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:22,440 generation that have developed an 1103 00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:24,450 interest in this because we need to 1104 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:26,730 create that interest for the new 1105 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:29,090 generation Martin we need to keep going 1106 00:57:35,150 --> 00:57:31,650 that's right and John started when he 1107 00:57:36,170 --> 00:57:35,160 was 16 I think it was and started his 1108 00:57:38,980 --> 00:57:36,180 for yes 1109 00:57:43,580 --> 00:57:38,990 you know his Freedom of Information Act 1110 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:43,590 you know requests at age 16 and you know 1111 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:45,330 I had a conversation with Stanton 1112 00:57:51,350 --> 00:57:47,970 Friedman oh I don't know five or six 1113 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:51,360 years ago and I said Stanton who is the 1114 00:57:57,740 --> 00:57:56,250 next Stan Freeman and he said well let 1115 00:58:00,500 --> 00:57:57,750 me think about that for a minute you 1116 00:58:04,980 --> 00:58:00,510 know how it stands yeah they said I'd 1117 00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:04,990 say John Greenwald is and I 1118 00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:07,090 told John that and you know I when I met 1119 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:10,240 John and Phoenix a few years ago I told 1120 00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:12,730 him what's what Stanton said and he got 1121 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:14,770 teary-eyed he thought that was such an 1122 00:58:22,530 --> 00:58:18,210 honor that Stanwood would say that 1123 00:58:23,940 --> 00:58:22,540 listen Michael can you hear me Michael 1124 00:58:26,100 --> 00:58:23,950 you should be on the phone still Michael 1125 00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:26,110 he is on the phone I have a muted hold 1126 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:27,040 on all right 1127 00:58:32,220 --> 00:58:29,650 right Michael can you hear me I mean 1128 00:58:35,390 --> 00:58:32,230 yeah Michael I'm not seeing your camera 1129 00:58:42,210 --> 00:58:35,400 this time when you're in the on the 1130 00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:42,220 stream here okay I can see myself and 1131 00:58:51,630 --> 00:58:45,280 this is on backstage are you using 1132 00:58:54,090 --> 00:58:51,640 Chrome again still in Firefox 1133 00:58:55,590 --> 00:58:54,100 oh yeah Firefox I should have warned you 1134 00:58:57,630 --> 00:58:55,600 right up front I keep forgetting to tell 1135 00:58:59,490 --> 00:58:57,640 people I'm gonna buy you another minute 1136 00:59:02,520 --> 00:58:59,500 because we need it are you sure we need 1137 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:02,530 it yeah we have 30 seconds before we 1138 00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:03,850 come back you make yeah I guess we do 1139 00:59:09,090 --> 00:59:06,790 okay all right all right well we can 1140 00:59:12,599 --> 00:59:09,100 still continue to talk anyway yes while 1141 00:59:14,430 --> 00:59:12,609 he's working out on but yes what do you 1142 00:59:18,570 --> 00:59:14,440 have any information about next week's 1143 00:59:23,510 --> 00:59:18,580 guest coming up yes next week I have a 1144 00:59:26,190 --> 00:59:23,520 gentleman named Matthew Shaddaa kiss 1145 00:59:32,190 --> 00:59:26,200 Matthew Shaddaa gives it's this last 1146 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:32,200 name is spelled SC z y da G is he's a 1147 00:59:41,609 --> 00:59:35,410 scientist and he's really looking deeply 1148 00:59:46,770 --> 00:59:41,619 into the UFO topic great guy all right 1149 00:59:48,359 --> 00:59:46,780 Michael you're back okay so Michael I'm 1150 00:59:50,550 --> 00:59:48,369 gonna bring you in and see what we do 1151 00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:50,560 with your audio but you're going to have 1152 00:59:55,020 --> 00:59:53,200 to you're going to have to mute his 1153 00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:55,030 phone can you do that bill I can't right 1154 01:00:01,080 --> 00:59:57,090 now we have 30 seconds by the way Martin 1155 01:00:04,140 --> 01:00:01,090 30 seconds okay let me bring him in all 1156 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:04,150 right yeah we still get that feedback 1157 01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:07,210 yeah I think with the phone yeah we're 1158 01:00:11,580 --> 01:00:08,170 gonna have to stick with the phone 1159 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:11,590 Michael so go ahead and mute your mute 1160 01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:15,250 your audio Michael okay 1161 01:00:19,980 --> 01:00:16,810 all right gentlemen we're coming back in 1162 01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:19,990 about 25 seconds Mike you still have to 1163 01:00:27,060 --> 01:00:23,970 mute your audio on that little icon I 1164 01:00:35,550 --> 01:00:27,070 did it 1165 01:00:38,670 --> 01:00:35,560 oh no it's not muted okay I just muted 1166 01:00:40,890 --> 01:00:38,680 well I try to mute you I would for 1167 01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:40,900 coming back so musics playing your intro 1168 01:00:47,100 --> 01:00:43,090 music back to your music actually okay 1169 01:00:48,060 --> 01:00:47,110 you guys ready here we go three two one 1170 01:00:50,190 --> 01:00:48,070 go 1171 01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:50,200 all right welcome back my guest is 1172 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:53,440 Michael Busby and I don't know if I've 1173 01:01:05,790 --> 01:00:54,850 been pronouncing your name right have I 1174 01:01:07,170 --> 01:01:05,800 Michael yes you doing okay sorry we 1175 01:01:11,550 --> 01:01:07,180 couldn't get your audio going there 1176 01:01:14,820 --> 01:01:11,560 let's one of the things up you know this 1177 01:01:17,550 --> 01:01:14,830 this show is about UFOs and you know the 1178 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:17,560 1897 I'm sure you know that the story 1179 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:19,930 has been all along you know that that 1180 01:01:24,750 --> 01:01:22,930 was a UFO crash and something about it 1181 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:24,760 hit a windmill or something and there's 1182 01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:27,730 a unmarked grave and there's a whole 1183 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:30,370 story about that did you go into that 1184 01:01:36,660 --> 01:01:33,450 part in in that part with the 1185 01:01:42,270 --> 01:01:36,670 the evidence they claimed they had the 1186 01:01:44,790 --> 01:01:42,280 melted pieces and things like that oh 1187 01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:44,800 yeah yeah we haven't we have fifty five 1188 01:01:49,530 --> 01:01:47,410 minutes but but this just to let you 1189 01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:49,540 know that the show is about UFO so I 1190 01:01:54,090 --> 01:01:51,850 want it I do want to I do want to bring 1191 01:01:55,380 --> 01:01:54,100 this subject into UFOs because that's 1192 01:01:57,950 --> 01:01:55,390 what a lot of people were saying they 1193 01:02:02,580 --> 01:01:57,960 were seeing in one way or another okay 1194 01:02:06,780 --> 01:02:02,590 well I wanted to want to approach it in 1195 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:06,790 a you know an intelligent and stepwise 1196 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:09,610 fashion so that we can understand the 1197 01:02:18,060 --> 01:02:12,970 whole picture sure so I'm giving you a 1198 01:02:28,110 --> 01:02:22,060 airship development and test flying from 1199 01:02:32,970 --> 01:02:28,120 the 1840s up to up to the airshow 1200 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:32,980 airship show of the 1896 and 1997 1201 01:02:40,510 --> 01:02:36,050 but moving ahead to that time period I'd 1202 01:02:44,260 --> 01:02:40,520 mentioned that the first sighting in 18 1203 01:02:48,790 --> 01:02:44,270 fall of 1896 was over Sacramento and the 1204 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:48,800 Sacramento Bee reported that sighting is 1205 01:02:54,310 --> 01:02:51,530 same to lock well on the Sacramento Bee 1206 01:03:00,400 --> 01:02:54,320 at the time so I'm trying to establish 1207 01:03:05,230 --> 01:03:00,410 that I believe the wealthy families of 1208 01:03:09,490 --> 01:03:05,240 the United States between the 1850s in 1209 01:03:15,460 --> 01:03:09,500 the 1890s had invested in these 1210 01:03:20,350 --> 01:03:15,470 inventors and one of them was a well 1211 01:03:25,050 --> 01:03:20,360 known inventor in San Francisco who has 1212 01:03:28,170 --> 01:03:25,060 well-documented airship airship designs 1213 01:03:33,220 --> 01:03:28,180 that you can see in the patent records 1214 01:03:36,460 --> 01:03:33,230 and some San Francisco newspapers 1215 01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:36,470 interviewed him when this sighting was 1216 01:03:41,620 --> 01:03:38,960 seen over Sacramento Bee and he claimed 1217 01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:41,630 yes that that was him on a test flight 1218 01:03:48,070 --> 01:03:46,250 flying over Sacramento and he goes on to 1219 01:03:51,010 --> 01:03:48,080 say that they have built they've 1220 01:03:53,740 --> 01:03:51,020 designed and built 11 airships that 1221 01:03:55,630 --> 01:03:53,750 their tests line and they're not all 1222 01:04:02,730 --> 01:03:55,640 identical they they have several 1223 01:04:06,820 --> 01:04:02,740 different configurations any mentions 1224 01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:06,830 the attorney for the the airship 1225 01:04:13,540 --> 01:04:10,490 consortium is a George Collins of San 1226 01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:13,550 Francisco who as I mentioned was a wee 1227 01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:16,490 Randolph Hearst cousin so newspapers 1228 01:04:25,060 --> 01:04:18,770 start dogging George Collins asking him 1229 01:04:28,030 --> 01:04:25,070 questions and he's quite the library of 1230 01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:28,040 information he answers all this paper 1231 01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:29,730 question so 1232 01:04:33,830 --> 01:04:32,130 you pull up the San Francisco newspapers 1233 01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:33,840 there was I think three or four 1234 01:04:40,330 --> 01:04:37,920 different newspapers in San Francisco at 1235 01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:40,340 the time and you read their articles 1236 01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:45,930 which I have in some in my book George 1237 01:04:51,260 --> 01:04:48,330 Collins talks about about the air ships 1238 01:04:56,390 --> 01:04:51,270 and he talks about the men who involved 1239 01:05:01,340 --> 01:04:56,400 so he's naming names and this I think is 1240 01:05:03,820 --> 01:05:01,350 very important I take all the names that 1241 01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:03,830 are mentioned in the newspaper accounts 1242 01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:08,490 not only in 1896 Beaufort 1897 and and 1243 01:05:15,980 --> 01:05:13,170 then going back to 1850 and I try to 1244 01:05:23,420 --> 01:05:15,990 connect them all together to show the 1245 01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:23,430 continuity of how this all flowed to 1246 01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:25,410 result in these eleven airships being 1247 01:05:34,430 --> 01:05:31,410 built in 1896 well the first thing in 1248 01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:34,440 the fall November December 1896 around 1249 01:05:41,060 --> 01:05:37,170 San Francisco and then they start 1250 01:05:45,530 --> 01:05:41,070 showing up in the Midwest in Michigan 1251 01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,540 Illinois Indiana and wherever they're 1252 01:05:51,950 --> 01:05:47,760 seen they're always at night they're 1253 01:05:54,470 --> 01:05:51,960 always flying estimated to be flying in 1254 01:05:57,710 --> 01:05:54,480 about 10 to 15,000 feet in the air and 1255 01:06:00,820 --> 01:05:57,720 their speeds are estimated at faster 1256 01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:00,830 than the fastest locomotives which in 1257 01:06:10,030 --> 01:06:03,690 1897 was about was over a hundred miles 1258 01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:10,040 an hour of course going back saw Manders 1259 01:06:16,010 --> 01:06:13,980 wide in 1863 he proved that he can fly 1260 01:06:18,140 --> 01:06:16,020 one two hundred miles an hour 1261 01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:18,150 yeah can I just interrupt you there for 1262 01:06:26,620 --> 01:06:21,119 a second how after that time how could 1263 01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:36,670 well they had some interesting designs 1264 01:06:43,410 --> 01:06:40,640 gosh yes I should have read my books I 1265 01:06:51,950 --> 01:06:48,720 it's been 30 years ago they had some 1266 01:06:59,000 --> 01:06:51,960 very interesting worm gear type 1267 01:07:05,099 --> 01:06:59,010 arrangements and now maybe you'll 1268 01:07:10,740 --> 01:07:05,109 understand appreciate this as I get on 1269 01:07:14,700 --> 01:07:10,750 into the story here because these eleven 1270 01:07:19,650 --> 01:07:14,710 airships there were only four seeing 1271 01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:19,660 flying in the Midwest in January in 1272 01:07:27,450 --> 01:07:23,650 February of 1897 that means five of them 1273 01:07:28,380 --> 01:07:27,460 have discipline seven of them have 1274 01:07:30,620 --> 01:07:28,390 disappeared 1275 01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:30,630 well digging through newspaper records 1276 01:07:38,339 --> 01:07:34,510 from the time period I can identify more 1277 01:07:41,630 --> 01:07:38,349 six of those seven crashed at different 1278 01:07:44,609 --> 01:07:41,640 locales between Michigan and California 1279 01:07:50,460 --> 01:07:44,619 so they start out with 11 airships in 1280 01:07:54,539 --> 01:07:50,470 November or November of 96 and by March 1281 01:08:01,220 --> 01:07:54,549 of 1897 when they first started peering 1282 01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:04,230 now I want to mention names because one 1283 01:08:10,799 --> 01:08:05,920 of the names is very important to this 1284 01:08:12,779 --> 01:08:10,809 story is John Shelby Williams John 1285 01:08:14,779 --> 01:08:12,789 Shelby Williams was born in Butte County 1286 01:08:19,130 --> 01:08:14,789 in the 1800s 1287 01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:19,140 along with three or four other cast 1288 01:08:28,829 --> 01:08:24,850 members of this show and George Hearst 1289 01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:28,839 got him appointed a u.s. marshal well 1290 01:08:40,740 --> 01:08:37,169 Williams comes to Texas and he buys a 1291 01:08:43,559 --> 01:08:40,750 small ranch in North Texas outside of 1292 01:08:48,930 --> 01:08:43,569 town called the Dona and he buys another 1293 01:08:54,660 --> 01:08:48,940 small ranch down by Houston a place 1294 01:08:56,789 --> 01:08:54,670 outside Houston called con grow well in 1295 01:08:59,099 --> 01:08:56,799 March and April as a 1296 01:09:03,059 --> 01:08:59,109 97 these airship sightings are being 1297 01:09:05,370 --> 01:09:03,069 seen all over North Texas and this is 1298 01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:05,380 the area focus in on my book because 1299 01:09:11,329 --> 01:09:08,049 there's enough I was able to get enough 1300 01:09:15,379 --> 01:09:11,339 newspaper clippings enough sightings 1301 01:09:21,599 --> 01:09:15,389 where I could start triangulating the 1302 01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:21,609 paths of these airships and I discovered 1303 01:09:29,609 --> 01:09:24,960 that when they were seen in North Texas 1304 01:09:35,220 --> 01:09:29,619 they were originating from John Shelby's 1305 01:09:39,390 --> 01:09:35,230 ranch in the dump I triangulate their 1306 01:09:42,180 --> 01:09:39,400 paths they all cross right there where 1307 01:09:46,189 --> 01:09:42,190 his ranch was just outside of ladonia 1308 01:09:52,819 --> 01:09:46,199 and then the same thing down in 1309 01:10:02,930 --> 01:09:56,100 originated in the area of conroe where 1310 01:10:05,669 --> 01:10:02,940 he had a farm so I believe that sheriff 1311 01:10:10,589 --> 01:10:05,679 u.s. marshal my sheriff a US Marshal 1312 01:10:16,020 --> 01:10:10,599 John Shelby Williams was a member of 1313 01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:16,030 this this airship party now there are 1314 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:20,489 newspaper articles that says that one 1315 01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:23,050 airship was having mechanical problems 1316 01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:27,520 where the scene south of Fort Worth and 1317 01:10:33,330 --> 01:10:29,110 now normally they were only seen at 1318 01:10:37,109 --> 01:10:33,340 night this one airship was seen in the 1319 01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:37,119 early morning and it was seemed to be 1320 01:10:41,339 --> 01:10:39,730 having trouble and it landed came down 1321 01:10:44,399 --> 01:10:41,349 to earth 1322 01:10:47,879 --> 01:10:44,409 it landed near town some people talked 1323 01:10:51,569 --> 01:10:47,889 to the people who were there people to 1324 01:10:55,740 --> 01:10:51,579 people I think on the airship and some 1325 01:10:57,419 --> 01:10:55,750 local people talked to them and all this 1326 01:10:59,819 --> 01:10:57,429 information got into the newspaper 1327 01:11:02,580 --> 01:10:59,829 account and the airship went back up in 1328 01:11:09,959 --> 01:11:02,590 the air and was continuing on north 1329 01:11:15,989 --> 01:11:13,410 a line from where it was seeing South 1330 01:11:18,450 --> 01:11:15,999 West or Southwest being southwest of 1331 01:11:23,899 --> 01:11:18,460 Fort Worth my jaw line from there to 1332 01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:23,909 ladonia it crosses over Aurora Texas 1333 01:11:33,629 --> 01:11:28,650 well war is where a government official 1334 01:11:37,580 --> 01:11:33,639 reported in April of 1897 an airship 1335 01:11:45,359 --> 01:11:37,590 crashed it crashed into a a windmill of 1336 01:11:46,950 --> 01:11:45,369 a local judges yard with the death of 1337 01:11:53,399 --> 01:11:46,960 you know someone said the body was 1338 01:11:58,529 --> 01:11:53,409 burned so bad it was unrecognizable so I 1339 01:12:01,080 --> 01:11:58,539 believe the crash roar was one of these 1340 01:12:06,959 --> 01:12:01,090 airships as I said there's a newspaper 1341 01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:06,969 article from the Fort Worth newspaper at 1342 01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:08,530 the time saying that the airship was 1343 01:12:21,149 --> 01:12:13,050 having mechanical problems that morning 1344 01:12:24,589 --> 01:12:21,159 southeast of so you won't talk about 1345 01:12:27,839 --> 01:12:24,599 UFOs and you know see what most people 1346 01:12:30,180 --> 01:12:27,849 when they think UFOs they think little 1347 01:12:34,879 --> 01:12:30,190 green men from Mars or you know some 1348 01:12:38,430 --> 01:12:34,889 other type of outerspace experience well 1349 01:12:42,689 --> 01:12:38,440 I've got a top-secret security clearance 1350 01:12:45,270 --> 01:12:42,699 with so you Hank you whiskey access for 1351 01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:45,280 forty five years I've been inside that 1352 01:12:53,700 --> 01:12:51,010 hangar at wright-patterson Air Force 1353 01:12:56,129 --> 01:12:53,710 Base in Ohio where supposedly the little 1354 01:12:59,459 --> 01:12:56,139 green bodies are kept down in the 1355 01:13:01,020 --> 01:12:59,469 basement I can't tell you what goes on 1356 01:13:02,850 --> 01:13:01,030 inside there because you have to have a 1357 01:13:07,580 --> 01:13:02,860 top-secret just to get it top-secret 1358 01:13:13,859 --> 01:13:10,410 can't tell you that that hangar does not 1359 01:13:17,549 --> 01:13:13,869 have a basement it has no little green 1360 01:13:21,989 --> 01:13:17,559 bodies that's really sure if they seem 1361 01:13:23,890 --> 01:13:21,999 green but you know I think I think the 1362 01:13:28,959 --> 01:13:23,900 green layer Joe 1363 01:13:32,530 --> 01:13:28,969 immolation yeah yeah yeah that was a 1364 01:13:34,990 --> 01:13:32,540 picture of the image that you know the 1365 01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:35,000 media gave us back in the 18 back in the 1366 01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:38,449 1950s and 1960s you know like any time 1367 01:13:44,189 --> 01:13:40,489 they showed space creatures they usually 1368 01:13:46,330 --> 01:13:44,199 little bring little green men and women 1369 01:13:50,979 --> 01:13:46,340 you know what define to be a little 1370 01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:50,989 amusing yeah right yeah I know I know my 1371 01:13:58,120 --> 01:13:54,560 father was a World War two veteran and 1372 01:14:01,229 --> 01:13:58,130 he was in the military police his last 1373 01:14:05,919 --> 01:14:01,239 10 years and he was facing out it 1374 01:14:13,709 --> 01:14:05,929 Roswell and about 18 months before he 1375 01:14:17,919 --> 01:14:13,719 died in 2002 anthemic there was anything 1376 01:14:21,070 --> 01:14:17,929 about Roswell that was you know what 1377 01:14:25,050 --> 01:14:21,080 really happened there and of course he 1378 01:14:27,939 --> 01:14:25,060 had a top-secret security clearance and 1379 01:14:31,689 --> 01:14:27,949 he couldn't provide details or anything 1380 01:14:37,419 --> 01:14:31,699 but he did tell me he says you can 1381 01:14:39,850 --> 01:14:37,429 believe what you read and to be honestly 1382 01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:39,860 that's all I know about Roswell I mean I 1383 01:14:49,810 --> 01:14:45,250 read a lot about it and studied it and 1384 01:14:51,729 --> 01:14:49,820 but my only experience with Roswell is 1385 01:14:54,100 --> 01:14:51,739 that I've been in that hangar at 1386 01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:54,110 wright-patterson and and there's no 1387 01:14:57,700 --> 01:14:56,239 alien bodies in there and there's not 1388 01:14:59,290 --> 01:14:57,710 even a but they said they were stored in 1389 01:15:00,729 --> 01:14:59,300 the basement in the hangar there's not a 1390 01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:00,739 third amount of basement in the hangar 1391 01:15:05,470 --> 01:15:03,530 either are you talking well this more 1392 01:15:08,740 --> 01:15:05,480 than one hangar there isn't there I mean 1393 01:15:14,500 --> 01:15:08,750 there's a lot of hangers right well but 1394 01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:14,510 the one that supposedly the supposedly 1395 01:15:24,729 --> 01:15:18,010 the one where the bodies were taken and 1396 01:15:27,399 --> 01:15:24,739 ambry from from the crash yeah well you 1397 01:15:30,810 --> 01:15:27,409 know that to a point here I'm getting to 1398 01:15:36,250 --> 01:15:30,820 a point here and that is you look at the 1399 01:15:39,220 --> 01:15:36,260 UFO sightings from the 1970s the CIA 1400 01:15:42,820 --> 01:15:39,230 finally admitted 1401 01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:42,830 several years ago 10 15 years ago CIA 1402 01:15:49,630 --> 01:15:46,400 finally admitted that probably 70 70 75 1403 01:15:55,450 --> 01:15:49,640 percent of the reported UFO sightings in 1404 01:15:58,450 --> 01:15:55,460 the 8 in the 1970s was the u-2 spy plane 1405 01:16:02,560 --> 01:15:58,460 I didn't realize it was that high but 1406 01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:02,570 the other that was reported right yeah 1407 01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:06,800 so my point is is it recent things 1408 01:16:13,510 --> 01:16:11,570 flying in the air at night and we don't 1409 01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:13,520 know if they're from this world or from 1410 01:16:18,370 --> 01:16:16,730 some other world from just looking up 1411 01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:18,380 the sky and seeing something I mean you 1412 01:16:23,470 --> 01:16:21,920 take the stealth fighter anyone's in the 1413 01:16:25,420 --> 01:16:23,480 stealth fighter for the very first time 1414 01:16:28,810 --> 01:16:25,430 was wearing if it's from Mars or Venus 1415 01:16:30,220 --> 01:16:28,820 or somewhere you know it would certainly 1416 01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:30,230 didn't look like it was anything that 1417 01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:32,930 was designed and built on this planet 1418 01:16:45,300 --> 01:16:40,370 but in fact it was so the the 1897 story 1419 01:16:48,990 --> 01:16:45,310 and the Aurora Aurora Texas crash is 1420 01:16:53,110 --> 01:16:49,000 really about some very inventive 1421 01:16:56,500 --> 01:16:53,120 Americans who were well financed by 1422 01:17:02,070 --> 01:16:56,510 capitalists by rich capitalists who I 1423 01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:02,080 believe were the founding members of 1424 01:17:10,180 --> 01:17:04,970 what has now become the one-world 1425 01:17:14,170 --> 01:17:10,190 government these guys I mentioned George 1426 01:17:17,500 --> 01:17:14,180 Collins because once you start talking 1427 01:17:21,070 --> 01:17:17,510 to the newspapers we amend all hearse 1428 01:17:29,230 --> 01:17:21,080 fired him from working for the hoods 1429 01:17:32,650 --> 01:17:29,240 corporation and in 1898 George Collins 1430 01:17:36,220 --> 01:17:32,660 was visiting electric in Kentucky and he 1431 01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:36,230 gave an interview to the local paper and 1432 01:17:43,780 --> 01:17:38,210 he told the local paper that he was the 1433 01:17:50,440 --> 01:17:43,790 Grand Vizier of the Illuminati well in 1434 01:17:50,950 --> 01:17:50,450 1903 George Collins was arrested charged 1435 01:17:53,380 --> 01:17:50,960 with 1436 01:17:56,229 --> 01:17:53,390 surgery and since the 14 years in alpha 1437 01:17:58,120 --> 01:17:56,239 dress now that's a big downfall for 1438 01:18:03,459 --> 01:17:58,130 someone who's a cousin the weight of 1439 01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:03,469 Randolph Hearst now things were slow you 1440 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:06,290 know information was slow to pass back 1441 01:18:10,510 --> 01:18:07,850 in those days you know you had the 1442 01:18:16,690 --> 01:18:10,520 Telegraph with the fastest means of 1443 01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:16,700 communications so Collins and 1898 gives 1444 01:18:20,890 --> 01:18:18,610 the interview in Lexington Kentucky 1445 01:18:22,930 --> 01:18:20,900 saying he's the Grand Vizier the 1446 01:18:25,500 --> 01:18:22,940 Illuminati we Randolph Hearst doesn't 1447 01:18:27,940 --> 01:18:25,510 hear about it until three years later 1448 01:18:30,550 --> 01:18:27,950 and he has his cousin brought up on 1449 01:18:34,870 --> 01:18:30,560 perjury charges he's thrown in prison 1450 01:18:36,610 --> 01:18:34,880 for 14 years today it's the one said 1451 01:18:41,170 --> 01:18:36,620 they admitted they were the Grand Vizier 1452 01:18:43,959 --> 01:18:41,180 they would probably be assassinated now 1453 01:18:47,440 --> 01:18:43,969 I may be way off base here you know I 1454 01:18:50,260 --> 01:18:47,450 may be making a lot of assumptions but 1455 01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:50,270 this is just the picture I get given 1456 01:18:56,620 --> 01:18:53,770 everything I know that happened then and 1457 01:18:58,959 --> 01:18:56,630 subsequently because when I started 1458 01:19:02,229 --> 01:18:58,969 looking at these the rich people who are 1459 01:19:03,610 --> 01:19:02,239 involved in this story I see them and 1460 01:19:07,180 --> 01:19:03,620 their family members and their 1461 01:19:13,030 --> 01:19:07,190 descendants coming up repeatedly in our 1462 01:19:16,810 --> 01:19:13,040 government they become important members 1463 01:19:20,500 --> 01:19:16,820 of our government and knowing what 1464 01:19:24,970 --> 01:19:20,510 Bohemian Grove what transpired there and 1465 01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:24,980 how it evolved from being a you know a 1466 01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:28,010 place to have all the sex and drugs you 1467 01:19:34,900 --> 01:19:32,930 can stand in 1895 to be in a different 1468 01:19:38,590 --> 01:19:34,910 kind of place but the clientele has 1469 01:19:41,650 --> 01:19:38,600 changes it's gone from reporters to oral 1470 01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:41,660 politicians especially based on what we 1471 01:19:50,050 --> 01:19:46,010 know today with the child the pedophilia 1472 01:19:53,229 --> 01:19:50,060 this that's becoming known well it makes 1473 01:19:55,330 --> 01:19:53,239 me wonder how much of that they're doing 1474 01:19:59,040 --> 01:19:55,340 it this Bohemian Grove which is 1475 01:20:02,320 --> 01:19:59,050 off-limits to the public you know you 1476 01:20:04,779 --> 01:20:02,330 you try to gain the this 2,000 acre 1477 01:20:07,449 --> 01:20:04,789 ranch and you know jail for 1478 01:20:09,069 --> 01:20:07,459 while we can't even cross the fence 1479 01:20:17,770 --> 01:20:09,079 without them catching you because it's 1480 01:20:20,679 --> 01:20:17,780 all monitored so well in aerospace for 1481 01:20:26,409 --> 01:20:20,689 as long as I did I know that the 1482 01:20:30,539 --> 01:20:26,419 government is involved in designing and 1483 01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:30,549 test line augmenter all manner of 1484 01:20:39,909 --> 01:20:35,449 interesting aircraft and they test on at 1485 01:20:41,859 --> 01:20:39,919 night when they're not easily seen they 1486 01:20:43,799 --> 01:20:41,869 don't take their latest and greatest 1487 01:20:49,059 --> 01:20:43,809 flying machine down in broad daylight 1488 01:20:51,789 --> 01:20:49,069 and fly them across LA or New York City 1489 01:20:53,789 --> 01:20:51,799 or anything like that they may fly over 1490 01:20:57,819 --> 01:20:53,799 the desert areas out there in California 1491 01:21:00,069 --> 01:20:57,829 no honor and they do it at night so that 1492 01:21:02,259 --> 01:21:00,079 they can keep it as classified as you 1493 01:21:06,039 --> 01:21:02,269 know classified secret as long as 1494 01:21:09,939 --> 01:21:06,049 possible so I think that's where a lot 1495 01:21:13,299 --> 01:21:09,949 of our UFO sightings come from they come 1496 01:21:16,169 --> 01:21:13,309 from machines that are flying machines 1497 01:21:22,149 --> 01:21:16,179 that are designed and built by humans 1498 01:21:24,729 --> 01:21:22,159 now based on some personal experiences 1499 01:21:30,969 --> 01:21:24,739 that have been related to me by my 1500 01:21:34,539 --> 01:21:30,979 friends there does seem to be another 1501 01:21:39,239 --> 01:21:34,549 element involved in some UFO sightings 1502 01:21:42,449 --> 01:21:39,249 there does seem to be something that's 1503 01:21:45,759 --> 01:21:42,459 more intelligent than the typical human 1504 01:21:49,979 --> 01:21:45,769 this out there doing something but have 1505 01:21:53,799 --> 01:21:49,989 there had any personal personal UFO 1506 01:21:58,000 --> 01:21:53,809 experience I could not trace back to 1507 01:22:00,729 --> 01:21:58,010 something that humans were doing yeah 1508 01:22:03,039 --> 01:22:00,739 well there's there's sometimes there's a 1509 01:22:06,179 --> 01:22:03,049 natural phenomenon you know people will 1510 01:22:09,969 --> 01:22:06,189 see that you know they are confusing 1511 01:22:13,119 --> 01:22:09,979 with an unidentified object and 1512 01:22:15,669 --> 01:22:13,129 eventually gets explained but there is a 1513 01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:15,679 number of cases you know it's a small 1514 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:18,800 percentage but there's a number of cases 1515 01:22:24,700 --> 01:22:22,010 no one has ever been able to explain and 1516 01:22:26,980 --> 01:22:24,710 you know I mean I'm not saying little 1517 01:22:30,070 --> 01:22:26,990 green men but I'm just saying that we 1518 01:22:33,970 --> 01:22:30,080 still call them you know unknown objects 1519 01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:33,980 and you know there's there's a sighting 1520 01:22:38,740 --> 01:22:36,530 like someone in the in the chat room 1521 01:22:40,150 --> 01:22:38,750 just posted you know something about the 1522 01:22:42,300 --> 01:22:40,160 Phoenix lights I don't know if you've 1523 01:22:48,580 --> 01:22:42,310 ever heard of that that was back in 1524 01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:48,590 March 13th 1997 and this huge you know 1525 01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:51,650 triangle some people say miles wide went 1526 01:22:56,110 --> 01:22:53,650 over the valley there are many many 1527 01:22:57,700 --> 01:22:56,120 hundreds maybe even thousands of people 1528 01:23:00,910 --> 01:22:57,710 actually saw this because they were out 1529 01:23:02,740 --> 01:23:00,920 looking at the comet back then 1530 01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:02,750 and that's you know that's one that has 1531 01:23:10,150 --> 01:23:04,970 never been explained it's been tried to 1532 01:23:12,790 --> 01:23:10,160 be explained away through because the 1533 01:23:15,250 --> 01:23:12,800 military did put up flares later on that 1534 01:23:18,070 --> 01:23:15,260 night many people saw that too and they 1535 01:23:19,690 --> 01:23:18,080 you know it has been tried to it has 1536 01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:19,700 been explained away his flares but 1537 01:23:25,990 --> 01:23:23,690 that's really not what it was yeah I 1538 01:23:27,970 --> 01:23:26,000 read about right about that the Phoenix 1539 01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:27,980 lights and you know Mexico City lives 1540 01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:34,130 and Marfa Marfa lights yeah oh yeah 1541 01:23:41,590 --> 01:23:39,130 Marshall Luxor that's just something 1542 01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:41,600 interesting that I would like to go to 1543 01:23:47,100 --> 01:23:44,210 one day but looks like I'm not gonna 1544 01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:47,110 make it I'm not gonna last that long 1545 01:23:51,970 --> 01:23:49,850 no well listen you know getting back to 1546 01:23:55,300 --> 01:23:51,980 this 1897 in particular 1547 01:23:58,900 --> 01:23:55,310 Aurora that's the one that you know it 1548 01:24:04,420 --> 01:23:58,910 has been on many TV shows I know 1549 01:24:08,830 --> 01:24:04,430 UFO Hunters did a show on that many many 1550 01:24:12,490 --> 01:24:08,840 people have dove into that thinking that 1551 01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:12,500 it was you know a crash airship with you 1552 01:24:17,380 --> 01:24:15,170 know an alien basically because you know 1553 01:24:19,210 --> 01:24:17,390 I mean that is kind of the the stretch 1554 01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:19,220 that people have made you know 1555 01:24:23,430 --> 01:24:21,170 unexplained they didn't know what it was 1556 01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:23,440 they saw a charred body a charred 1557 01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:27,290 vehicle and they put in an unknown grave 1558 01:24:31,810 --> 01:24:29,330 and there's been a lot of people that 1559 01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:31,820 have wanted to try to dig up that grave 1560 01:24:35,730 --> 01:24:32,770 they know apart 1561 01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:35,740 similar word is but it it's not you know 1562 01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:38,650 being allowed rightly so but you know 1563 01:24:42,540 --> 01:24:40,210 they just wanted to like test the body 1564 01:24:45,870 --> 01:24:42,550 DNA see if it's human and all that but 1565 01:24:49,020 --> 01:24:45,880 it you know it a lot of people share 1566 01:24:51,510 --> 01:24:49,030 your view that this was nothing but you 1567 01:24:53,370 --> 01:24:51,520 know some type of flying dirigible the 1568 01:24:55,530 --> 01:24:53,380 only thing I can't you know really 1569 01:24:57,780 --> 01:24:55,540 understand so far is I can't get how 1570 01:25:00,030 --> 01:24:57,790 something could have possibly gone 200 1571 01:25:02,250 --> 01:25:00,040 miles an hour and stay together that's 1572 01:25:04,410 --> 01:25:02,260 still without if it's not writing a 1573 01:25:06,570 --> 01:25:04,420 current I can't understand how any type 1574 01:25:09,540 --> 01:25:06,580 of dirigible or balloon could have ever 1575 01:25:11,550 --> 01:25:09,550 moved that fast so where did you get 1576 01:25:13,340 --> 01:25:11,560 that you know I don't want to harp on it 1577 01:25:15,650 --> 01:25:13,350 but where did you get that particular 1578 01:25:21,210 --> 01:25:15,660 information 1579 01:25:24,570 --> 01:25:21,220 satting clippings you said well you know 1580 01:25:29,820 --> 01:25:24,580 somewhere someway I came across his name 1581 01:25:40,730 --> 01:25:29,830 and and researching his ground you know 1582 01:25:46,650 --> 01:25:40,740 I come across this because of all the 1583 01:25:48,540 --> 01:25:46,660 plans or yeah you're always we're having 1584 01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:48,550 some we're having some audio trouble 1585 01:25:58,980 --> 01:25:56,170 with you as your phone okay yeah same 1586 01:26:03,600 --> 01:25:58,990 thing okay all right man I'm way the 1587 01:26:09,770 --> 01:26:03,610 hell out here in the country you know my 1588 01:26:13,410 --> 01:26:09,780 strange things happen out here yeah okay 1589 01:26:15,810 --> 01:26:13,420 so yeah go ahead and you can answer that 1590 01:26:17,370 --> 01:26:15,820 question if you you know how could it 1591 01:26:20,670 --> 01:26:17,380 have gone 200 miles an hour and where 1592 01:26:23,670 --> 01:26:20,680 did you get that information well thank 1593 01:26:26,790 --> 01:26:23,680 you and he was riding the wind the 1594 01:26:30,930 --> 01:26:26,800 information comes from the newspaper the 1595 01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:30,940 new york city new articles that i that 1596 01:26:39,300 --> 01:26:34,930 i've dug up on on the story and they're 1597 01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:39,310 referenced in the book i think i quote 1598 01:26:53,950 --> 01:26:50,590 and Solomon remember our quarry Solomon 1599 01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:53,960 Andrews interview with a couple of 1600 01:27:01,200 --> 01:26:56,210 newspapers and they talked about how 1601 01:27:06,130 --> 01:27:01,210 fast he went and and how high he went 1602 01:27:11,470 --> 01:27:06,140 but yes I presumably was driving the 1603 01:27:16,360 --> 01:27:11,480 wind currents but I don't know of course 1604 01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:16,370 I wasn't there thank goodness yeah so 1605 01:27:24,910 --> 01:27:20,050 just some assumptions made there now 1606 01:27:28,930 --> 01:27:24,920 keep in mind I said that George Collins 1607 01:27:30,850 --> 01:27:28,940 had said that they had built and we're 1608 01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:30,860 test flying the eleven of these airships 1609 01:27:40,060 --> 01:27:35,410 in the fall of 1896 before he was fired 1610 01:27:44,710 --> 01:27:40,070 from the Hearst Corporation for made it 1611 01:27:48,790 --> 01:27:44,720 to Texas one crashed at Aurora and I can 1612 01:27:50,890 --> 01:27:48,800 only document three that left Texas and 1613 01:27:54,700 --> 01:27:50,900 went up the coast headed for New York 1614 01:27:58,860 --> 01:27:54,710 City and the last one crashed off from 1615 01:28:04,420 --> 01:27:58,870 the coast of New York City got newspaper 1616 01:28:08,740 --> 01:28:04,430 accounts documented crashing somewhere 1617 01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:08,750 off Staten Island so these machines they 1618 01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:11,290 were they were flowing great altitude 1619 01:28:19,090 --> 01:28:15,170 and fast speed for the time but they 1620 01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:19,100 weren't reliable they didn't you know 1621 01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:22,370 you weren't gonna get you know the kind 1622 01:28:26,850 --> 01:28:23,690 of flight hours out of them like you 1623 01:28:30,850 --> 01:28:26,860 would have modern days yet now there are 1624 01:28:36,220 --> 01:28:30,860 newspaper accounts were they claim the 1625 01:28:39,550 --> 01:28:36,230 people who were interviewed driving 1626 01:28:42,610 --> 01:28:39,560 these machines claimed to have flown to 1627 01:28:49,870 --> 01:28:42,620 Europe and back and they may very well 1628 01:28:54,460 --> 01:28:49,880 have but again they just weren't real 1629 01:28:58,570 --> 01:28:54,470 reliable in 1897 if something fell out 1630 01:28:58,870 --> 01:28:58,580 of the sky in your backyard unless it 1631 01:29:04,360 --> 01:28:58,880 had 1632 01:29:05,919 --> 01:29:04,370 name tag around his neck you know that's 1633 01:29:10,180 --> 01:29:05,929 all he could do just bear it in the 1634 01:29:15,780 --> 01:29:10,190 local cemetery and unmarked grave that 1635 01:29:22,870 --> 01:29:19,870 they just didn't have any tools to you 1636 01:29:24,939 --> 01:29:22,880 know you know of course they couldn't 1637 01:29:29,860 --> 01:29:24,949 they didn't do any DNA testing didn't 1638 01:29:33,570 --> 01:29:29,870 know what DNA was in those days and they 1639 01:29:38,709 --> 01:29:33,580 bury people real quick real fast because 1640 01:29:42,820 --> 01:29:38,719 you know preservation means and methods 1641 01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:42,830 were not as well-defined as they are 1642 01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:45,650 today for the head embalming but you 1643 01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:50,449 can't really embalm a charged body and 1644 01:29:58,390 --> 01:29:56,330 they had ice houses but if you're an ice 1645 01:30:00,160 --> 01:29:58,400 house owner and you agree to take the 1646 01:30:05,050 --> 01:30:00,170 charged body and stored anything who's 1647 01:30:08,110 --> 01:30:05,060 gonna buy your eyes after that yeah 1648 01:30:10,750 --> 01:30:08,120 that's right they had no yeah they had 1649 01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:10,760 no choice but their home buried as fast 1650 01:30:20,290 --> 01:30:13,130 as they could so I believe one of the 1651 01:30:24,879 --> 01:30:20,300 one of the California airship inventors 1652 01:30:27,820 --> 01:30:24,889 our participant was was in that airship 1653 01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:27,830 and died and like I said I document the 1654 01:30:33,939 --> 01:30:30,650 fact that an airship was down on the 1655 01:30:36,959 --> 01:30:33,949 ground with mechanical problems just a 1656 01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:36,969 couple of hours before that crash 1657 01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:41,330 southeaster there I forget to name the 1658 01:30:45,790 --> 01:30:42,770 town there's some wear out around 1659 01:30:51,459 --> 01:30:45,800 Mineral Springs and they would have 1660 01:30:56,189 --> 01:30:51,469 flown over Aurora to get back to us 1661 01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:56,199 Marshall Williams ranch outside Magana 1662 01:31:02,169 --> 01:30:59,840 so it makes sense to me that you know 1663 01:31:08,590 --> 01:31:02,179 that was one of the four machines that 1664 01:31:10,780 --> 01:31:08,600 crashed in Aurora all the names are 1665 01:31:12,700 --> 01:31:10,790 involved in this see the airships would 1666 01:31:15,310 --> 01:31:12,710 would land on the ground 1667 01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:15,320 be found on the ground by someone local 1668 01:31:20,410 --> 01:31:17,690 from time to time because it had 1669 01:31:23,430 --> 01:31:20,420 mechanical problems and had to sit down 1670 01:31:26,020 --> 01:31:23,440 on the ground and some farmer or Rancher 1671 01:31:28,540 --> 01:31:26,030 wandering by would stop and talk to them 1672 01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:28,550 and he'd give an interview to the local 1673 01:31:35,290 --> 01:31:32,570 newspaper and they mention names well 1674 01:31:38,620 --> 01:31:35,300 they were involved in flying one of 1675 01:31:43,090 --> 01:31:38,630 these machines was two instructors from 1676 01:31:46,540 --> 01:31:43,100 the US Military Academy named a gold bar 1677 01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:46,550 and got a name of Tilman I don't 1678 01:31:51,700 --> 01:31:48,850 remember which is which but one was a 1679 01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:51,710 chemistry teacher at the military 1680 01:31:57,250 --> 01:31:54,050 academy and the other one was a physics 1681 01:31:59,590 --> 01:31:57,260 teacher and I checked with the US 1682 01:32:03,459 --> 01:31:59,600 military historian that at the academy 1683 01:32:09,910 --> 01:32:03,469 and gentlemen and Gobert were didn't 1684 01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:09,920 leave during this time period the reason 1685 01:32:15,970 --> 01:32:12,050 for the leave was not given we couldn't 1686 01:32:18,220 --> 01:32:15,980 ascertain that you know but but they 1687 01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:18,230 were absent from the military academy at 1688 01:32:27,820 --> 01:32:24,050 the time there's one real interesting 1689 01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:27,830 fighting were they set down outside New 1690 01:32:33,490 --> 01:32:31,010 Orleans Louisiana and they catch a ride 1691 01:32:39,490 --> 01:32:33,500 into town and stay at a real nice hotel 1692 01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:39,500 and give several interviews there while 1693 01:32:43,660 --> 01:32:41,690 they're doing something to fix their fix 1694 01:32:50,950 --> 01:32:43,670 their ship and then they get in and head 1695 01:32:54,370 --> 01:32:50,960 on towards New York City yeah hey my 1696 01:32:56,110 --> 01:32:54,380 name Pete yeah Michael I think we're 1697 01:32:58,540 --> 01:32:56,120 gonna we're gonna call it a night 1698 01:33:04,090 --> 01:32:58,550 I want to thank you so much and where 1699 01:33:08,229 --> 01:33:04,100 can someone find your book and on Amazon 1700 01:33:11,740 --> 01:33:08,239 and the name of it is mystery why I'm 1701 01:33:16,030 --> 01:33:11,750 missing it the mister what's the title 1702 01:33:17,140 --> 01:33:16,040 again solving the 1897 Air Shuttle story 1703 01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:17,150 that's it 1704 01:33:21,490 --> 01:33:19,250 all right thank you so much Michael it's 1705 01:33:25,150 --> 01:33:21,500 been a real pleasure thanks a lot thank 1706 01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:25,160 you on take heart okay you take care all 1707 01:33:30,340 --> 01:33:26,210 right 1708 01:33:32,550 --> 01:33:30,350 painting behind me on YouTube see that 1709 01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:32,560 new painting anyway I'm gonna bring in 1710 01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:33,770 alejandro 1711 01:33:40,270 --> 01:33:38,450 well how are you good 1712 01:33:41,650 --> 01:33:40,280 your audio sounds a little bit weak if 1713 01:33:44,740 --> 01:33:41,660 you I don't know if you can boost your 1714 01:33:49,450 --> 01:33:44,750 or do just a little bit but thanks for 1715 01:33:52,300 --> 01:33:49,460 thanks for popping on and for I don't 1716 01:33:54,130 --> 01:33:52,310 know what you can uh what you didn't 1717 01:33:56,650 --> 01:33:54,140 talk about last week but you have a 1718 01:33:58,620 --> 01:33:56,660 couple things going on you're adding 1719 01:34:00,490 --> 01:33:58,630 more and more to your patreon site and 1720 01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:00,500 so you want to talk a little bit about 1721 01:34:05,530 --> 01:34:01,850 that and then I have some questions to 1722 01:34:08,650 --> 01:34:05,540 ask you as well okay how do you hear me 1723 01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:08,660 alright yeah it's better yes okay good I 1724 01:34:11,890 --> 01:34:11,330 am well yes I've got all kinds of stuff 1725 01:34:13,930 --> 01:34:11,900 going on 1726 01:34:17,440 --> 01:34:13,940 so thank you so much Martin for having 1727 01:34:20,709 --> 01:34:17,450 me on to talk about that you know we're 1728 01:34:22,390 --> 01:34:20,719 so as far as the Congress we're moving 1729 01:34:25,390 --> 01:34:22,400 forward on that it will have to be 1730 01:34:27,700 --> 01:34:25,400 completely online so sorry about that 1731 01:34:30,820 --> 01:34:27,710 but you know this sort of things fun 1732 01:34:32,260 --> 01:34:30,830 it'll be like this and of course you've 1733 01:34:33,940 --> 01:34:32,270 talked about coming and helping us so 1734 01:34:35,530 --> 01:34:33,950 we're excited about that we're always 1735 01:34:37,660 --> 01:34:35,540 happy to have you there 1736 01:34:40,979 --> 01:34:37,670 that's are going to be here remote but I 1737 01:34:45,729 --> 01:34:40,989 will be helping I'm sure yeah yeah and 1738 01:34:50,050 --> 01:34:45,739 love - yep so and then the other thing 1739 01:34:53,110 --> 01:34:50,060 is the all the live streaming I'm doing 1740 01:34:55,330 --> 01:34:53,120 so I've been doing a lot of that and you 1741 01:34:58,540 --> 01:34:55,340 know I'm trying to kind of have a 1742 01:35:00,340 --> 01:34:58,550 resurgent - rebirth of all of this stuff 1743 01:35:03,729 --> 01:35:00,350 some people might have noticed that the 1744 01:35:06,310 --> 01:35:03,739 open mind site is down and essentially 1745 01:35:08,860 --> 01:35:06,320 you know I'm trying to get that resolved 1746 01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:08,870 right now but because of that that's why 1747 01:35:13,390 --> 01:35:11,090 I've been trying to do kind of some 1748 01:35:16,090 --> 01:35:13,400 different things to get things going and 1749 01:35:18,250 --> 01:35:16,100 get more content out there I know I've 1750 01:35:21,190 --> 01:35:18,260 been away for awhile I moved and was 1751 01:35:23,229 --> 01:35:21,200 trying to figure out this new future and 1752 01:35:26,260 --> 01:35:23,239 everything but I'm really excited to get 1753 01:35:29,050 --> 01:35:26,270 more content out so for instance I've 1754 01:35:31,270 --> 01:35:29,060 got my Rojas report I haven't announced 1755 01:35:33,580 --> 01:35:31,280 this this is going to be a Wednesday 1756 01:35:35,950 --> 01:35:33,590 thing of course after yours the day 1757 01:35:38,850 --> 01:35:35,960 after your yours and this is going to be 1758 01:35:40,060 --> 01:35:38,860 where my interviews reside but also 1759 01:35:41,939 --> 01:35:40,070 presentations 1760 01:35:46,899 --> 01:35:41,949 so I got a lot of requests from people 1761 01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:46,909 to do a talk on to the Stars and the 8a 1762 01:35:51,790 --> 01:35:49,010 program and kind of go over the details 1763 01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:51,800 of all of that it's something I've done 1764 01:35:56,109 --> 01:35:54,530 at events like at Roswell and other 1765 01:35:58,419 --> 01:35:56,119 places but I've got all these lectures 1766 01:35:59,859 --> 01:35:58,429 that I've built for these events and 1767 01:36:03,339 --> 01:35:59,869 they're not all online so I've decided 1768 01:36:05,319 --> 01:36:03,349 to start doing that you can listen to 1769 01:36:07,930 --> 01:36:05,329 the law or watch the livestream and join 1770 01:36:10,930 --> 01:36:07,940 us on livestream on patreon you can also 1771 01:36:13,180 --> 01:36:10,940 subscribe at the open minds TV YouTube 1772 01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:13,190 but beyond it's the best place patreon 1773 01:36:17,109 --> 01:36:14,690 you can get to everything there you 1774 01:36:20,530 --> 01:36:17,119 could watch it live stream there you can 1775 01:36:22,089 --> 01:36:20,540 join there is a membership for that but 1776 01:36:23,859 --> 01:36:22,099 otherwise if you want to pay a little 1777 01:36:29,020 --> 01:36:23,869 less you can subscribe just to the audio 1778 01:36:31,540 --> 01:36:29,030 part but uh-huh I know I didn't ask you 1779 01:36:34,330 --> 01:36:31,550 this but I'm gonna put up there for 1780 01:36:37,450 --> 01:36:34,340 because if anyone wants to call in and 1781 01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:37,460 you can ask Alejandro myself for myself 1782 01:36:42,010 --> 01:36:39,170 of questions so that number is up there 1783 01:36:44,379 --> 01:36:42,020 now eight five five four seven two five 1784 01:36:47,169 --> 01:36:44,389 four eight three if anyone wants to give 1785 01:36:48,939 --> 01:36:47,179 us a call you can talk about our last 1786 01:36:53,020 --> 01:36:48,949 guest any questions you may have about 1787 01:36:54,760 --> 01:36:53,030 that but um since Alejandro is here it's 1788 01:36:57,490 --> 01:36:54,770 always good to have him on anyone has a 1789 01:37:01,060 --> 01:36:57,500 question for him or myself feel free to 1790 01:37:04,419 --> 01:37:01,070 call in and Bill Skywalker will be 1791 01:37:05,950 --> 01:37:04,429 screening calls over there and I did 1792 01:37:07,660 --> 01:37:05,960 want to mention a couple other things 1793 01:37:10,060 --> 01:37:07,670 that we'll be doing yeah just because I 1794 01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:10,070 think they're they're important for the 1795 01:37:14,709 --> 01:37:12,530 time so with den of geek it's a website 1796 01:37:16,060 --> 01:37:14,719 I write for sci-fi and that sort of 1797 01:37:17,830 --> 01:37:16,070 thing but they were really interested in 1798 01:37:19,870 --> 01:37:17,840 these Navy UFO videos so I've been doing 1799 01:37:21,669 --> 01:37:19,880 a live stream lecture series and at 1800 01:37:24,069 --> 01:37:21,679 first I was kind of tackling what's 1801 01:37:25,689 --> 01:37:24,079 going on here you know why as the DoD 1802 01:37:28,919 --> 01:37:25,699 been so weird about these announcements 1803 01:37:33,189 --> 01:37:28,929 why is this news now and so what I did 1804 01:37:34,839 --> 01:37:33,199 was I've kind of been talking about that 1805 01:37:37,930 --> 01:37:34,849 with people and it's kind of evolved 1806 01:37:41,530 --> 01:37:37,940 into now this whole idea of disclosure 1807 01:37:43,990 --> 01:37:41,540 is information being disclosed what 1808 01:37:46,390 --> 01:37:44,000 information is being disclosed 1809 01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:46,400 is there more to disclose and what is 1810 01:37:50,319 --> 01:37:48,290 there and one of our friends that's been 1811 01:37:52,569 --> 01:37:50,329 talking a lot about this lately is Bryce 1812 01:37:53,739 --> 01:37:52,579 Abel so tomorrow I'll be live-streaming 1813 01:37:55,930 --> 01:37:53,749 with him 1814 01:37:58,390 --> 01:37:55,940 at den of geek to talk about that I 1815 01:38:00,100 --> 01:37:58,400 think he could represent this idea of 1816 01:38:01,479 --> 01:38:00,110 you know all these people asking for 1817 01:38:03,370 --> 01:38:01,489 more and more and more well what do they 1818 01:38:05,229 --> 01:38:03,380 expect what do they think is there and 1819 01:38:08,020 --> 01:38:05,239 he'll let us know and he's got movie 1820 01:38:10,509 --> 01:38:08,030 projects along those lines as well and 1821 01:38:12,879 --> 01:38:10,519 so that's gonna be a lot of fun yeah 1822 01:38:14,669 --> 01:38:12,889 absolutely Brice uh he was on I don't 1823 01:38:16,450 --> 01:38:14,679 know was it two weeks ago I think 1824 01:38:18,790 --> 01:38:16,460 brilliant a gentleman 1825 01:38:22,719 --> 01:38:18,800 yeah he said he's he's a brilliant man 1826 01:38:25,270 --> 01:38:22,729 and I I think you know when he writes 1827 01:38:28,689 --> 01:38:25,280 something like that it he takes his time 1828 01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:28,699 who writes a really nice articles I did 1829 01:38:33,339 --> 01:38:31,130 share that in one of the links but this 1830 01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:33,349 disclosure thing and I know he wrote a 1831 01:38:39,910 --> 01:38:37,130 book with Richard Dolan years ago it was 1832 01:38:42,580 --> 01:38:39,920 called about disclosure right yeah it 1833 01:38:44,350 --> 01:38:42,590 was ad after disclosure and it was a 1834 01:38:46,930 --> 01:38:44,360 speculative book they were speculating 1835 01:38:49,209 --> 01:38:46,940 what would happen if disclosure happened 1836 01:38:50,830 --> 01:38:49,219 would people freak out and what they 1837 01:38:53,830 --> 01:38:50,840 would do and it's a very interesting 1838 01:38:55,540 --> 01:38:53,840 book to look through and what's 1839 01:38:59,350 --> 01:38:55,550 interesting about that book is of course 1840 01:39:01,089 --> 01:38:59,360 it happened before the Louise Alexander 1841 01:39:04,299 --> 01:39:01,099 came out with all of this Pentagon news 1842 01:39:07,509 --> 01:39:04,309 and and we really are going through a 1843 01:39:09,540 --> 01:39:07,519 sort of disclosure I think Lou Elizondo 1844 01:39:12,279 --> 01:39:09,550 would argue that this is disclosure 1845 01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:12,289 whereas others think there's more so 1846 01:39:17,859 --> 01:39:15,050 we'll see what's interesting though is 1847 01:39:20,739 --> 01:39:17,869 just what a huge impact this disclosure 1848 01:39:24,299 --> 01:39:20,749 we're having now has had and is having 1849 01:39:27,609 --> 01:39:24,309 on our lawmakers and and you know de 1850 01:39:30,339 --> 01:39:27,619 yeah let's talk about that mm-hmm I saw 1851 01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:30,349 that tweeted around everywhere and Brian 1852 01:39:35,259 --> 01:39:33,650 bender as well tweeted that go ahead and 1853 01:39:37,810 --> 01:39:35,269 get into that if I didn't really get a 1854 01:39:39,819 --> 01:39:37,820 chance to read it okay yeah so this is 1855 01:39:42,310 --> 01:39:39,829 really late breaking this morning this 1856 01:39:45,310 --> 01:39:42,320 is really cool where the Senate 1857 01:39:47,649 --> 01:39:45,320 Intelligence Committee has put in one of 1858 01:39:51,459 --> 01:39:47,659 the bills regarding I think defense 1859 01:39:56,319 --> 01:39:51,469 spending and intelligence spending in 1860 01:39:59,620 --> 01:39:56,329 there they've requested a report from 1861 01:40:02,350 --> 01:39:59,630 the UAP task force of the Office of 1862 01:40:04,419 --> 01:40:02,360 Naval Intelligence so and that's exactly 1863 01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:04,429 what it says the unidentified aerial 1864 01:40:10,030 --> 01:40:07,370 phenomena attacks task force 1865 01:40:12,610 --> 01:40:10,040 of the Office of Naval Intelligence what 1866 01:40:15,190 --> 01:40:12,620 this organization seems to be or at 1867 01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:15,200 least what people are assuming it to be 1868 01:40:21,670 --> 01:40:19,370 is exactly what Elizondo worked for we 1869 01:40:24,910 --> 01:40:21,680 have heard people like Roger Kastle has 1870 01:40:27,280 --> 01:40:24,920 got information out or information from 1871 01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:27,290 the Pentagon saying that finally 1872 01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:30,530 admitting that yes you know you hate you 1873 01:40:36,700 --> 01:40:33,410 ap organization exists it goes across 1874 01:40:39,190 --> 01:40:36,710 different agencies and that it is 1875 01:40:40,990 --> 01:40:39,200 ongoing which was that what Elizondo has 1876 01:40:43,660 --> 01:40:41,000 said all along even though the Pentagon 1877 01:40:46,210 --> 01:40:43,670 at first said this ended in 2012 so 1878 01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:46,220 they've admitted that and now you know 1879 01:40:50,770 --> 01:40:49,250 as elizondo's and others have said 1880 01:40:53,320 --> 01:40:50,780 they've been working behind the scenes 1881 01:40:56,590 --> 01:40:53,330 to now get that information into 1882 01:40:58,450 --> 01:40:56,600 lawmakers hands and apparently you know 1883 01:41:00,580 --> 01:40:58,460 there are some people concerned that hey 1884 01:41:02,620 --> 01:41:00,590 why are we learning about this from the 1885 01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:02,630 New York Times why haven't we been 1886 01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:04,610 briefed on this information so they're 1887 01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:07,130 asking for a fairly exhaustive report 1888 01:41:12,790 --> 01:41:10,610 they're giving them till March of 2021 1889 01:41:14,470 --> 01:41:12,800 to put this together but this is fairly 1890 01:41:17,440 --> 01:41:14,480 extraordinary this is going to be the 1891 01:41:20,380 --> 01:41:17,450 first you know UFO report that we've 1892 01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:20,390 gotten from the government they've also 1893 01:41:24,220 --> 01:41:22,730 asked that even if some even though they 1894 01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:24,230 realize some of this information may be 1895 01:41:29,590 --> 01:41:27,050 classified they want as much of it to be 1896 01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:29,600 public as possible so this is definitely 1897 01:41:34,210 --> 01:41:32,090 a report that will have a public 1898 01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:34,220 component so we'll be getting some 1899 01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:37,010 entrance in information on this at some 1900 01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:39,050 point yeah you can see the question up 1901 01:41:45,490 --> 01:41:42,530 there they're asking if you thought the 1902 01:41:48,970 --> 01:41:45,500 information they release may not be 1903 01:41:51,550 --> 01:41:48,980 sanitized and useless like the UK data 1904 01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:51,560 well I don't think the UK data was 1905 01:41:56,650 --> 01:41:54,410 useless whatsoever nor do I feel that 1906 01:42:00,670 --> 01:41:56,660 there's evidence of any sanitation of 1907 01:42:03,910 --> 01:42:00,680 that information either there certainly 1908 01:42:06,460 --> 01:42:03,920 everything wasn't released and 1909 01:42:07,870 --> 01:42:06,470 fortunately we have some insight like 1910 01:42:10,180 --> 01:42:07,880 Nick Pope who worked on those programs 1911 01:42:11,860 --> 01:42:10,190 to be able to share hey you know there's 1912 01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:11,870 there is some stuff that you know may 1913 01:42:17,190 --> 01:42:15,050 not be out but yeah I don't know if I 1914 01:42:21,229 --> 01:42:17,200 necessarily agree with the way that was 1915 01:42:22,790 --> 01:42:21,239 framed but will it be useful it's 1916 01:42:24,439 --> 01:42:22,800 definitely hard to say I think it 1917 01:42:27,350 --> 01:42:24,449 definitely I think it will be useful I 1918 01:42:30,589 --> 01:42:27,360 think it's useful on two ends its useful 1919 01:42:33,319 --> 01:42:30,599 the the there are politicians who are 1920 01:42:35,270 --> 01:42:33,329 now interested and looking into it when 1921 01:42:37,430 --> 01:42:35,280 it comes out it will give us some 1922 01:42:41,029 --> 01:42:37,440 indication at least on their public 1923 01:42:43,549 --> 01:42:41,039 stance will it be a little bit combative 1924 01:42:45,470 --> 01:42:43,559 where they're trying obviously to hold 1925 01:42:47,750 --> 01:42:45,480 back or will it be a little more 1926 01:42:50,029 --> 01:42:47,760 transparent and give us the appearance 1927 01:42:53,359 --> 01:42:50,039 that they are looking into the things 1928 01:42:55,700 --> 01:42:53,369 that out that'll be interesting and so 1929 01:42:59,239 --> 01:42:55,710 do you think the Navy what did they call 1930 01:43:03,020 --> 01:42:59,249 it that you ap task force the you ap 1931 01:43:08,239 --> 01:43:03,030 force yeah so is this something that we 1932 01:43:10,069 --> 01:43:08,249 are just finding out about well I that 1933 01:43:13,669 --> 01:43:10,079 could be argued it's hard to say for 1934 01:43:16,100 --> 01:43:13,679 sure loo Elizondo said that the program 1935 01:43:18,140 --> 01:43:16,110 that he ran was under the OSD which was 1936 01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:18,150 apartment that she worked in which was 1937 01:43:22,609 --> 01:43:20,730 the office of the Secretary of Defense 1938 01:43:24,589 --> 01:43:22,619 some people have said you know this is 1939 01:43:26,870 --> 01:43:24,599 saying that there this group is in the 1940 01:43:28,479 --> 01:43:26,880 oh and I the Office of Naval 1941 01:43:31,339 --> 01:43:28,489 Intelligence 1942 01:43:34,459 --> 01:43:31,349 and others are saying that this is the 1943 01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:34,469 same group even though maybe they're now 1944 01:43:39,350 --> 01:43:37,170 being headed out of the oh and I you 1945 01:43:41,750 --> 01:43:39,360 know Lu elizondo's program used to be in 1946 01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:41,760 the DIA before Lou took over and brought 1947 01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:44,130 it over to the OSD so these programs can 1948 01:43:50,689 --> 01:43:48,090 move around also us the Susan go the 1949 01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:50,699 representative for the Pentagon who is 1950 01:43:56,779 --> 01:43:53,730 the press rep told Roger Castle in his 1951 01:43:59,959 --> 01:43:56,789 questioning that there was a Malta task 1952 01:44:02,209 --> 01:43:59,969 force that was a multi-agency task force 1953 01:44:05,209 --> 01:44:02,219 so that different agencies were working 1954 01:44:08,540 --> 01:44:05,219 on it so it's possible and it's being 1955 01:44:10,810 --> 01:44:08,550 assumed right now that essentially the 1956 01:44:14,689 --> 01:44:10,820 existence of this group was originally 1957 01:44:17,870 --> 01:44:14,699 revealed by Lou Elizondo denied by the 1958 01:44:21,220 --> 01:44:17,880 Pentagon only recently admitted that it 1959 01:44:23,870 --> 01:44:21,230 existed by the Pentagon and now the 1960 01:44:26,779 --> 01:44:23,880 Senate Intelligence Committee is saying 1961 01:44:29,930 --> 01:44:26,789 hey we want more information about this 1962 01:44:32,479 --> 01:44:29,940 organ and you say exists it's also 1963 01:44:34,430 --> 01:44:32,489 interesting to note that Marco Rubio was 1964 01:44:37,400 --> 01:44:34,440 a large part of this and he 1965 01:44:40,820 --> 01:44:37,410 part of briefings that Politico had 1966 01:44:43,310 --> 01:44:40,830 revealed happened a year ago and Brian 1967 01:44:46,280 --> 01:44:43,320 bender with Politico did write an 1968 01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:46,290 article today about this as well kind of 1969 01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:48,570 briefing some of the information that I 1970 01:44:53,060 --> 01:44:50,850 just had revealed along with some 1971 01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:53,070 information from Chris Mellon just kind 1972 01:44:56,870 --> 01:44:54,570 of talking about the importance of all 1973 01:44:59,900 --> 01:44:56,880 of this now is this something that 1974 01:45:02,180 --> 01:44:59,910 actually something actually recently 1975 01:45:06,740 --> 01:45:02,190 happened or is this something that's 1976 01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:06,750 been uncovered basically uh it's fair 1977 01:45:09,439 --> 01:45:08,730 it's sort of something that has been 1978 01:45:11,060 --> 01:45:09,449 uncovered 1979 01:45:14,150 --> 01:45:11,070 so really here's a history and this is 1980 01:45:17,150 --> 01:45:14,160 really interesting great question and 1981 01:45:20,900 --> 01:45:17,160 this is kind of all great for Louise 1982 01:45:23,630 --> 01:45:20,910 Elizondo it's very I forget to 1983 01:45:25,850 --> 01:45:23,640 vindicating because essentially Louise 1984 01:45:29,120 --> 01:45:25,860 Elizondo came out and he said I work on 1985 01:45:31,850 --> 01:45:29,130 a program that investigated UFOs I was 1986 01:45:34,430 --> 01:45:31,860 frustrated that leadership was not 1987 01:45:36,979 --> 01:45:34,440 listening to me he said he tried to take 1988 01:45:40,850 --> 01:45:36,989 this information to the Secretary of 1989 01:45:42,530 --> 01:45:40,860 Defense James Madison he wouldn't let 1990 01:45:43,130 --> 01:45:42,540 him take that information to James 1991 01:45:44,750 --> 01:45:43,140 Madison 1992 01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:44,760 they really wouldn't let him take that 1993 01:45:50,540 --> 01:45:47,489 information to anyone now in their eyes 1994 01:45:53,510 --> 01:45:50,550 they are you know allowing him to deny 1995 01:45:55,400 --> 01:45:53,520 that he knows anything James Madison 1996 01:45:56,390 --> 01:45:55,410 asked James Maddox what about UFOs what 1997 01:45:58,250 --> 01:45:56,400 do you know he can say I don't know 1998 01:46:02,120 --> 01:45:58,260 anything and he really wouldn't so it's 1999 01:46:03,770 --> 01:46:02,130 giving him plausible denial and it could 2000 01:46:05,959 --> 01:46:03,780 be those staffers felt there wasn't 2001 01:46:07,130 --> 01:46:05,969 enough information to present to the 2002 01:46:09,950 --> 01:46:07,140 Intelligence Committee 2003 01:46:11,959 --> 01:46:09,960 however Elizondo was blocked he couldn't 2004 01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:11,969 get the information out so that's when 2005 01:46:16,100 --> 01:46:14,850 he decided I'm gonna leave the Pentagon 2006 01:46:18,320 --> 01:46:16,110 and I'm gonna try to get this 2007 01:46:20,300 --> 01:46:18,330 information out to the public and do a 2008 01:46:23,450 --> 01:46:20,310 runaround essentially and get that 2009 01:46:25,820 --> 01:46:23,460 information out and his it worked it's 2010 01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:25,830 worked like a charm now that information 2011 01:46:30,620 --> 01:46:27,930 and it's gotten out into the New York 2012 01:46:32,300 --> 01:46:30,630 Times everybody's aware of it and now 2013 01:46:34,790 --> 01:46:32,310 the Senate Intelligence Committee and 2014 01:46:37,070 --> 01:46:34,800 this is kind of how Chris Mellon has 2015 01:46:38,810 --> 01:46:37,080 frameless today they're like hey why do 2016 01:46:41,270 --> 01:46:38,820 we have to know about this from the New 2017 01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:41,280 York Times why weren't we briefed on 2018 01:46:46,010 --> 01:46:43,610 this we want to be briefed on this now 2019 01:46:47,870 --> 01:46:46,020 one of the first people to pipe up and 2020 01:46:51,530 --> 01:46:47,880 ask about that was 2021 01:46:55,310 --> 01:46:51,540 the senator from Arizona who passed away 2022 01:46:57,260 --> 01:46:55,320 recently John McCain and we were able to 2023 01:47:00,380 --> 01:46:57,270 see in some of the documents and 2024 01:47:02,600 --> 01:47:00,390 meetings his questions around that we 2025 01:47:05,060 --> 01:47:02,610 also his letter was released to the 2026 01:47:07,280 --> 01:47:05,070 public as well there have been other 2027 01:47:10,580 --> 01:47:07,290 politicians that have asked questions 2028 01:47:12,410 --> 01:47:10,590 here or there but now they've got their 2029 01:47:13,940 --> 01:47:12,420 briefing a year ago you know they're 2030 01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:13,950 like hey what's going on we can't ask 2031 01:47:18,229 --> 01:47:15,570 for a briefing they got their briefing 2032 01:47:20,750 --> 01:47:18,239 and now they're a year later they're 2033 01:47:23,780 --> 01:47:20,760 asking for more information so things 2034 01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:23,790 just work slow in that arena in some of 2035 01:47:28,790 --> 01:47:26,010 these topics and yeah it's really a 2036 01:47:29,930 --> 01:47:28,800 continuation it's really Elizondo 2037 01:47:32,450 --> 01:47:29,940 whoo-hoo 2038 01:47:35,360 --> 01:47:32,460 you know opened up Pandora's box here 2039 01:47:37,790 --> 01:47:35,370 and this is really and and I think this 2040 01:47:40,220 --> 01:47:37,800 is accurate a result of what he's done 2041 01:47:42,770 --> 01:47:40,230 yeah we have a caller 2042 01:47:46,250 --> 01:47:42,780 Steve Steven is calling from Oregon 2043 01:47:47,030 --> 01:47:46,260 welcome to show Steven hey guys can you 2044 01:47:51,709 --> 01:47:47,040 hear me okay 2045 01:47:52,100 --> 01:47:51,719 oh yeah yeah go ahead yeah I'm glad to 2046 01:47:53,810 --> 01:47:52,110 hear that 2047 01:47:55,880 --> 01:47:53,820 Alejandro's kind of getting back in the 2048 01:48:01,670 --> 01:47:55,890 game and for years he was such a great 2049 01:48:03,170 --> 01:48:01,680 source of UFO news so thank you and I 2050 01:48:05,600 --> 01:48:03,180 will be getting back to that I'm gonna 2051 01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:05,610 be doing a Friday newscast 2052 01:48:10,010 --> 01:48:07,530 hopefully Martin will be joining me as 2053 01:48:13,280 --> 01:48:10,020 much as possible but I'll also be 2054 01:48:15,470 --> 01:48:13,290 posting that news on open minds once I 2055 01:48:18,290 --> 01:48:15,480 can get the website working but yeah 2056 01:48:20,090 --> 01:48:18,300 I'll be getting back to that yeah that's 2057 01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:20,100 great I followed your work for years you 2058 01:48:25,580 --> 01:48:22,410 are always a very reasonable resource 2059 01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:25,590 for for UFO news and that's not an easy 2060 01:48:34,070 --> 01:48:31,770 thing to find out there any questions so 2061 01:48:37,250 --> 01:48:34,080 a couple of Pentagon spokespeople have 2062 01:48:40,490 --> 01:48:37,260 come out and said that Elizondo was not 2063 01:48:42,550 --> 01:48:40,500 involved in a tip I'm Susan Gao who you 2064 01:48:45,770 --> 01:48:42,560 just mentioned and Christopher Sherwood 2065 01:48:47,750 --> 01:48:45,780 and I'm wondering how you reconcile why 2066 01:48:51,020 --> 01:48:47,760 they would come out and explicitly say 2067 01:48:56,119 --> 01:48:51,030 Elizondo was not part of a tip was never 2068 01:48:59,629 --> 01:48:57,919 yeah that's a really good question and I 2069 01:49:01,459 --> 01:48:59,639 think that you know that's where some of 2070 01:49:03,889 --> 01:49:01,469 the contention had come in where I was 2071 01:49:05,810 --> 01:49:03,899 writing yes he was obviously he was and 2072 01:49:07,639 --> 01:49:05,820 people were saying well how can you say 2073 01:49:09,560 --> 01:49:07,649 that if the the Pentagon spokespeople 2074 01:49:11,839 --> 01:49:09,570 are saying he's not well here's how I 2075 01:49:14,359 --> 01:49:11,849 can say that as it and this is typical 2076 01:49:16,549 --> 01:49:14,369 in journalism we go to the to the source 2077 01:49:18,349 --> 01:49:16,559 the witnesses who would know witnesses 2078 01:49:21,020 --> 01:49:18,359 like Harry Reid who started the program 2079 01:49:23,540 --> 01:49:21,030 witnesses like dr. Davis or dr. Hal put 2080 01:49:25,399 --> 01:49:23,550 up who worked on the program they have 2081 01:49:28,099 --> 01:49:25,409 first-hand because they were in the 2082 01:49:31,369 --> 01:49:28,109 program to tell us who worked doing what 2083 01:49:34,399 --> 01:49:31,379 the press office doesn't have access to 2084 01:49:36,109 --> 01:49:34,409 that information they are I think they 2085 01:49:38,119 --> 01:49:36,119 were very strong handed they shouldn't 2086 01:49:40,459 --> 01:49:38,129 have been so strong handed and saying 2087 01:49:44,509 --> 01:49:40,469 Elizondo did not work for these programs 2088 01:49:47,839 --> 01:49:44,519 they've had to walk that back later on 2089 01:49:49,669 --> 01:49:47,849 because it was proven he was and Tim 2090 01:49:51,409 --> 01:49:49,679 McMillan actually I don't know if we're 2091 01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:51,419 ins had him on the show actually it'd be 2092 01:49:56,689 --> 01:49:54,570 good if you you haven't but he has done 2093 01:49:58,189 --> 01:49:56,699 a lot of conversation with the press 2094 01:50:00,020 --> 01:49:58,199 department in the Pentagon and I asked 2095 01:50:01,819 --> 01:50:00,030 him that question well why didn't they 2096 01:50:04,099 --> 01:50:01,829 just ask the people we asked why didn't 2097 01:50:06,799 --> 01:50:04,109 they go to the to the source and he said 2098 01:50:09,109 --> 01:50:06,809 they have to ask people who are active 2099 01:50:11,899 --> 01:50:09,119 with the program so they can't ask 2100 01:50:13,279 --> 01:50:11,909 people who work for the program in the 2101 01:50:15,439 --> 01:50:13,289 past it's kind of silly 2102 01:50:17,869 --> 01:50:15,449 it's his goofy bureaucratic type of 2103 01:50:19,849 --> 01:50:17,879 thing so they weren't able to go to the 2104 01:50:21,649 --> 01:50:19,859 first hand and witnesses it's kind of 2105 01:50:24,020 --> 01:50:21,659 ridiculous and Tim Akmal and said now 2106 01:50:26,540 --> 01:50:24,030 Susan go has said well now it's been so 2107 01:50:29,779 --> 01:50:26,550 long ago I can't confirm anything which 2108 01:50:31,219 --> 01:50:29,789 is sort of ridiculous that is yeah so we 2109 01:50:35,270 --> 01:50:31,229 have we don't have a lot of time so 2110 01:50:38,060 --> 01:50:35,280 what's your second question Steven oh it 2111 01:50:40,009 --> 01:50:38,070 was just along the same line because I 2112 01:50:41,750 --> 01:50:40,019 asked to Leslie Kean the same question 2113 01:50:44,389 --> 01:50:41,760 just a few weeks ago when she was under 2114 01:50:46,759 --> 01:50:44,399 Gerald Martin and she doesn't really I 2115 01:50:49,310 --> 01:50:46,769 mean they she ran and she wrote the New 2116 01:50:51,109 --> 01:50:49,320 York Times article right yeah she didn't 2117 01:50:53,839 --> 01:50:51,119 one of the co-authors you know and she 2118 01:50:56,119 --> 01:50:53,849 couldn't explain why that they didn't 2119 01:50:59,389 --> 01:50:56,129 come out and omit his name they came out 2120 01:51:02,869 --> 01:50:59,399 and explosively said he was not art of a 2121 01:51:06,139 --> 01:51:02,879 tip yeah I think that it a lot of people 2122 01:51:07,879 --> 01:51:06,149 arguing they're not happy that he came 2123 01:51:09,199 --> 01:51:07,889 out they were not they didn't know he 2124 01:51:09,379 --> 01:51:09,209 was going to come out and share this in 2125 01:51:11,060 --> 01:51:09,389 four 2126 01:51:13,609 --> 01:51:11,070 Meishan he didn't give them a heads up 2127 01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:13,619 hey guys when I read attire I'm gonna 2128 01:51:17,419 --> 01:51:15,449 come out and share information on this 2129 01:51:19,639 --> 01:51:17,429 program which was probably wise of him 2130 01:51:23,509 --> 01:51:19,649 because they could have worked to keep 2131 01:51:26,989 --> 01:51:23,519 him from doing so and so they're up I I 2132 01:51:28,909 --> 01:51:26,999 think the only way you can square that 2133 01:51:31,069 --> 01:51:28,919 peg is that they are not happy with him 2134 01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:31,079 and they are retaliating that they're 2135 01:51:36,439 --> 01:51:33,570 trying to smear him I think that's the 2136 01:51:38,719 --> 01:51:36,449 perspective many people have and many 2137 01:51:41,239 --> 01:51:38,729 people argue that he would have a lot 2138 01:51:44,540 --> 01:51:41,249 you know a valid lawsuit if you were to 2139 01:51:46,069 --> 01:51:44,550 pursue that legally and perhaps he will 2140 01:51:49,790 --> 01:51:46,079 in the future I mean there's been buzz 2141 01:51:51,979 --> 01:51:49,800 about that sort of thing so what purpose 2142 01:51:54,049 --> 01:51:51,989 it has he ever provided any proof to the 2143 01:51:58,819 --> 01:51:54,059 bladders a lot of proof yeah a lot of 2144 01:52:00,529 --> 01:51:58,829 proof not only firsthand witnesses yes 2145 01:52:04,069 --> 01:52:00,539 he's provided lots of proof there's 2146 01:52:07,790 --> 01:52:04,079 firsthand witnesses there are documents 2147 01:52:11,270 --> 01:52:07,800 that Harry Reid has said are real that 2148 01:52:14,959 --> 01:52:11,280 George Knapp has leaked that was a Harry 2149 01:52:17,899 --> 01:52:14,969 Reid asking for the program to get sa P 2150 01:52:19,850 --> 01:52:17,909 status and he listed a bigoted list and 2151 01:52:23,509 --> 01:52:19,860 Lou Elizondo is on that list 2152 01:52:25,729 --> 01:52:23,519 I actually have an unredacted that 2153 01:52:28,669 --> 01:52:25,739 document and can see that entire list 2154 01:52:31,159 --> 01:52:28,679 with Lou Elizondo on there that is 2155 01:52:33,949 --> 01:52:31,169 evidence there's also this the email 2156 01:52:36,439 --> 01:52:33,959 string that I got be a FOIA and so did 2157 01:52:39,049 --> 01:52:36,449 other researchers where Elizondo was 2158 01:52:40,239 --> 01:52:39,059 clearing those navy videos to be 2159 01:52:43,159 --> 01:52:40,249 released to the public 2160 01:52:46,429 --> 01:52:43,169 so he's conversing with the Navy in his 2161 01:52:49,100 --> 01:52:46,439 capacity in a tip to get those released 2162 01:52:50,989 --> 01:52:49,110 there's a lot of stuff besides the 2163 01:52:53,959 --> 01:52:50,999 firsthand witnesses the guys who worked 2164 01:52:55,790 --> 01:52:53,969 on the programs the guy who created the 2165 01:52:58,359 --> 01:52:55,800 program all saying yes 2166 01:53:01,189 --> 01:52:58,369 Elizondo was the guy in charge of this 2167 01:53:05,149 --> 01:53:01,199 I'm curious have you ever talked to John 2168 01:53:07,429 --> 01:53:05,159 Green about any of it why was this ever 2169 01:53:09,500 --> 01:53:07,439 made it to John Green wall just just let 2170 01:53:11,810 --> 01:53:09,510 me know we have we have we have less 2171 01:53:13,669 --> 01:53:11,820 than a minute here okay yeah it has made 2172 01:53:15,589 --> 01:53:13,679 it to John Greenwald it didn't at first 2173 01:53:17,179 --> 01:53:15,599 and in fact that was part of our 2174 01:53:19,639 --> 01:53:17,189 arguments he was one of those guys 2175 01:53:20,060 --> 01:53:19,649 telling me hey you're going too quick on 2176 01:53:23,250 --> 01:53:20,070 this 2177 01:53:25,560 --> 01:53:23,260 but like Leslie Kane like Brian bender 2178 01:53:29,339 --> 01:53:25,570 like George Knapp like anybody in 2179 01:53:30,870 --> 01:53:29,349 journalism or even like the Navy or the 2180 01:53:34,279 --> 01:53:30,880 Senate Intelligence Committee 2181 01:53:37,290 --> 01:53:34,289 we all saw an abundance of credible 2182 01:53:39,299 --> 01:53:37,300 evidence that Elizondo was telling the 2183 01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:39,309 truth and it was the press office who 2184 01:53:44,279 --> 01:53:41,730 had it wrong it's just clear as day 2185 01:53:46,379 --> 01:53:44,289 among anybody who really looks at this 2186 01:53:49,529 --> 01:53:46,389 who even using it in an official 2187 01:53:51,540 --> 01:53:49,539 capacity so Greenwald though was having 2188 01:53:53,339 --> 01:53:51,550 great conversations with the press 2189 01:53:56,609 --> 01:53:53,349 office and he was being told something 2190 01:53:59,910 --> 01:53:56,619 different now after talking with Lou 2191 01:54:01,859 --> 01:53:59,920 Greenwald says I was being lied to and 2192 01:54:04,140 --> 01:54:01,869 he's got a very long article about this 2193 01:54:04,830 --> 01:54:04,150 that I was being lied to were all being 2194 01:54:07,470 --> 01:54:04,840 lied to 2195 01:54:09,990 --> 01:54:07,480 he believes Lou Elizondo is telling the 2196 01:54:11,729 --> 01:54:10,000 truth yeah you had another conversation 2197 01:54:12,509 --> 01:54:11,739 we have four ending here Alejandro 2198 01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:12,519 thanks so much 2199 01:54:16,680 --> 01:54:14,730 my pleasure can check out your website 2200 01:54:19,859 --> 01:54:16,690 put it out there real quick 2201 01:54:22,259 --> 01:54:19,869 Alejandro T Rojas calm or look at me on 2202 01:54:23,910 --> 01:54:22,269 patreon but Alejandro tiro has come and 2203 01:54:26,490 --> 01:54:23,920 soon I'll have open minds to that TV 2204 01:54:28,500 --> 01:54:26,500 back up all right you take care thanks a 2205 01:54:31,529 --> 01:54:28,510 lot peppering speakers right across my 2206 01:54:33,930 --> 01:54:31,539 shoulder somebody asks all right 2207 01:54:37,589 --> 01:54:33,940 everyone so that's it and next week as I 2208 01:54:40,649 --> 01:54:37,599 said earlier we have Matthew Shaddaa 2209 01:54:42,569 --> 01:54:40,659 hiss and he will be on a scientist it's 2210 01:54:44,640 --> 01:54:42,579 gonna be a great show next week and so 2211 01:54:47,490 --> 01:54:44,650 thank you very much everyone and 2212 01:54:49,480 --> 01:54:47,500 remember to stay safe and to keep your